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What makes Jack happy? -
Started by: LovelyOne

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LovelyOne
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What makes Jack happy? -

This is what I believe about Jack in the series..and how happy he really is..and how he actually NEEDS Elizabeth in his life..and this isn't just from movie 2..no no..this is from movie 1 and 2..and even from the little evidence we have of Jacks past

You know what I think means the world to Jack??

the fact that Liz has actually seen him at his very weakest point (movie 1) she's learned that the man he is now is not what he used to be..and she STILL has faith in him to be brave for her and that must mean the WORLD to Jack Sparrow..

He is so low in self confidence..he really is..and Liz just boosts it for him.

that whole front he puts on with his material objects etc and the fact he acts so desperate like a little lost KID when they are taken away shows us that he is really low in self respect and confidence and he needs those things in his life to help build up the lie of being brave and strong..This kind of life is UNHEALTHY for ANYONE..yes EVEN JACK SPARROW

Liz actually makes him brave and confident..and he starts to let those material things go..I think that is so important to notice..he becomes so amazingly brave when it comes to Liz..and he lets those things that he thought were once so important.. go..

She is like the answer to his drug problem where he relies on material things to feel "strong" on a SHORT TERM BASIS..she is the LONG TERM ANSWER to his strength and happiness..movie 2 made that SO SO obvious..where he's now strong enough to leave his material things behind..the VERY ship he traded his own SOUL for only years before..the man is basically going through REHAB lol

this is why I cant actually imagine Jack Sparrow returning to the way he was for a happy ending...cuz the man aint happy AT ALL when we see him in movie 1 the beach scene showed us this rare glimpse..He's like a little child screaming out for love to make himself feel strong and he's just not getting it..so he is CRUMBLING as a human being..its obvious in movie 1..and its even MORE THAN OBVIOUS in movie 2..

so waving it in front of him in movie 2 and then ripping it away from him by movie 3..i think would be the single most CRUELEST ending for the character of Jack sparrow

honestly the man is NOT a happy man when we meet him in movie 1..and for him to end up like that again in movie 3 is just so very VERY cruel..and I honestly would hate Disney for ending it on such a downer for Jack..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 11th, 2006 at 02:49 AM

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:41 AM
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sailorleo
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yes i think you have a solid theory but, will she be enough...you related to drug use but what happens if he goes back to his old ways, craving for more and more, like we see so often with people abusing drugs..or well anytihng....


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:44 AM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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totally


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:44 AM
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LovelyOne
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by sailorleo
yes i think you have a solid theory but, will she be enough...you related to drug use but what happens if he goes back to his old ways, craving for more and more, like we see so often with people abusing drugs..or well anytihng....


exactly..

you think that disney would end him like that?..basically a weak and broken man with a drug problem

Thats a horrible ending for him sad

Jack almsot became happy and then it got ripped away from him

I know people think that he is a happy man the way he is but he's really not..even Johhny says the most telling moment for his character is the beach scene in movie 1..it shows you how desperate and loney he really is underneath that material shell..

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:46 AM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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indeed


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:47 AM
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sailorleo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
exactly..you think that disney would end him like that?/basically a weak man witha drug problem

Thats a horrible ending for him sad
it is but is liz gonna be the cure...will she be enough...hee heh...n/m just realized who i was talking to.....


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:47 AM
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-savvychick-
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I agree with you lovelyone, ending with jack still relying on material objects would basically mean that the characters havent developed at all, and then what would the point of making the sequels to the first one be, if its just to end right back where they started?

it kind of a cruel ending to the movies, rather then a happy one, especially because disney must know that jack sparrow made this movie, and if he got a taste of how it felt to be brave, then had it ripped from him, he'd probably be even less happy then he was in the first one, relying only on his possessions

it would be cruel to the audience as well really, having all those clues, then having the ending right back where they started, that would mean the second one was just to keep the story going, really just a road bump, but hopefully when the third movie comes out, we'll learn that it was more then that!!!


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:52 AM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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totally


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:53 AM
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katelovespirate
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seriously they wont do it.

Jack is the star, and despite all the rumors abounding, it appears the writers/director/producer understand this. They will not give Jack an unsatisfactory ending... that would be madness.

Somehow, with Liz or not, Jack is going to turn full on hero IMO... not saying he will lose the wonderful piraty-ness we love about him, but he will become a more WHOLE person, with a better understanding of himself and the world.

The most brilliant way of doing this would of course be putting him and Liz together somehow.

There has been a lot of hype about the fact that Kiera gets to play with 2 swords in this one.... i think that is symbolic to that fact that she suddenly is juggling two men and trying to figure out what to do with them... ya know?

ALso, the moment where Will wakes up aboard the Pearl after they leave Isla Cruses is meant to recall the first time he and liz meet at the beginning of 1. TO ME, this seems like things have come full circle for Liz and Will. They met, were childhood sweethearts, got engaged, had lots of adventures, saw more of the world, realized how different they were, and are now back at the beginning. So where is the cycle going this time? Possibly in a new direction as the characters mature. This part is almost a tying up and saying goodbye to all that has passed between them before. The first time Will wakes up in 1, he cant take his eyes off Elizabeth. She discovers he is a pirate. The second time it happens, WIll doesnt care about Liz at all, he's all concerned with the chest and his dad. AND he realizes SHE is a pirate.

moral compasses have to be similar. Right now, they arent. Will MIGHT turn full pirate and therefore put himself on par with Liz, but otherwise, its not going to work.

And Jack is already RIGHT ON CUE with Liz.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:53 AM
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LovelyOne
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with Jack though..they have actually made it so its the theme of love that he needs..I cant imagine him not getting it and then being happy ever after..it would still be cruel to rip it away from him..

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:58 AM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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totally


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 02:58 AM
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-savvychick-
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I think that Will and Liz were never really in actual love, true, they loved each other, but i think it was more in a brother/sister type way then a lover type way.

There's also the fact that Will is more concentrated on his dad and Liz on Jack at the end of the second movie, which kind've sets it up to be that way in the third movie too.

What other way would Jack find a way to be happy all the time though??? The only way I can see that happening is for him to be with Liz. Anybody else have ideas about what else might make him happy?


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:00 AM
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Bwa Ha Ha
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rum?


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:00 AM
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-savvychick-
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lol, yeah, but rum was also a short term thing to make him happy in the 1st one...I dont think that could keep him happy, i mean, he's gotta sober up some timesmile


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:03 AM
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katelovespirate
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by LovelyOne
with Jack though..they have actually made it so its the theme of love that he needs..I cant imagine him not getting it and then being happy ever after..it would still be cruel to rip it away from him..


yeah im right with you.

aside from this, i simply cant make it work in my head that liz and jack will end up together- it seems to be obvious to the rest of the world.

but this argument gets me every time: Jack is the MAIN CHARACTER and he obviously WANTS Elizabeth and has since 1. It is NOT a passing fancy or simply physical attraction (and if it was meant to be, the actors played it all wrong)... it is a very deep and serious attraction to who she is and what she represents in his life. the audience WANTS Jack to win in the end. Unless its shown that, oh just kidding, Jack doesnt actually want Liz that much, then even the will/liz fans will feel disappointment if Jack is disappointed. And they CANT pull back now and say Jack doesnt want Liz without ruining his character.

That's the dilemma for me. The idea that jack MUST get what he is after (liz) trumps any notion of disney ideals, or it should anyways.

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:03 AM
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-savvychick-
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wasnt the movie originally supposed to be about the will/liz relationship though, and jack was just there to make it have some excitment to it, instead of turning into another classic disney story??? this whole thing is just driving me nuts!!!


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:06 AM
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willofthewisp
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Lol, sailor, LovelyOne is pretty unbending about this subject, and I mean that as a compliment.

If love is all he wants, then I think Liz would be enough for him. He loves her, his Pearl, and his freedom. We don't know if he will get the Pearl back, but he'll have his freedom AND her, and I think he feel that completion he's wanted with her.


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Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:11 AM
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katelovespirate
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by -savvychick-
wasnt the movie originally supposed to be about the will/liz relationship though, and jack was just there to make it have some excitment to it, instead of turning into another classic disney story??? this whole thing is just driving me nuts!!!


yes... the writers saw 1 essentially as a love story, with Elizabeth meant to be the main character. However, they never said they saw it as a Will/Liz love story.

We all know, however, that no matter how much we love Keira and Orlando and Jack Davenport etc, the movie would have been a total flop without Jack Sparrow. He MADE the films a legend, became an instant icon.

However, in the original script for the first film, there was also a lot more tension and chemistry shown between Liz and Jack. Barbossa actually warned Jack not to fall in love with Elizabeth, when it was clear Jack already was. The writers have pulled a lot of those themes (which couldnt fit in 1) into two and three.

The writers have come to realize that Jack is the money, and we see that in how they wrote 2. Its all Jack's adventure.

And now more than ever, i hope they understand that people love the movie because they love Jack, and the 3rd one will sink or not sink depending on how happy they make Jack. big grin

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:11 AM
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LovelyOne
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Honestly..Its obvious in movie 1 that the man is desperate for some sort of rock in his life..something that he can feel safe and brave with no matter what...his way of life is really unhealthy where a person relies too heavily on inanimate objects to feel strong and brave..its just like an alcoholic or a person with a drug problem...they give you a short term fix..but when they are gone..and the reality hits them they come CRASHING down on a huge emotional low..and we see Jack do this when everything is taken away from him and burned in movie 1..he was completley beside himself with confusion, fear and anger..the master of words was reduced to "no..stop!! not good..STOP!"..he almost murdered Elizabeth for gods sake..

athough that was pretty funny to watch..

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:12 AM
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LovelyOne
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also the whole "why is the rum always gone" call back to that weak moment he shared with Liz in movie 1..is ALL the more sigificant

they are basically saying that Liz is what Jack has needed since movie 1 to feel strong in life..

Old Post Sep 11th, 2006 03:33 AM
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