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A few questions
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LovelyOne
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A few questions

If the next movie is going to be a Will/Liz end up/marriage I just need to ask a few questions...and these are to no one but its just on my mind..



1. Why is there this whole vibe that the wedding will never happen?

2. Why raise the point that Jack is thinking of Elizabeth with the compass?

3. Why raise the point that Elizabeth wants Jack with the compass?

5. Why even add a compass that tells a Jack and Liz what they want most in this world is NOT what they thought it was?

6. Why show us that Elizabeth wants Jack all the more after the kiss/betrayal?

7. Why show us that Jack wants Elizabrth all the more after the kiss/betrayal?

8. why even seperate will/Liz and why have Will show his main interest in his father?

9. Most of all why dedicate a whole movie to something that lots of people are going to get their hopes up to if you are going to dash all of their hopes by movie 3?

Honestly what a huge mistake if disney are planning to do this..they must realize that its mainly women who go to see this movie(johnny depp)..and their favorite character is Jack sparrow and if Jack Sparrow shows an interest in Elizabeth and vice versa then people are going to fall in love with the idea of these two ending up together..and from what I read... they are going to NOT end the trilogy on that theme?

..all I can say is Disney better start digging themselves an early grave because the audience who made DMC go up to 1 billion at the box office (because of Jack/Liz) will go to movie 3 hoping to see Jack/Liz end up and will leave dissapointed with the Will/Liz ending..and you can say bye, bye to gaining more than 1 billion with AWE and you can say bye bye to more successful DVD sales for CotBP, DMC and in the future: AWE

I could understand them making a Will/Liz ending if they had Will spot a kiss half way through movie 2 and then will/Liz somewhat tried resolve it before it ends ..but they didn't..people mainly left thinking Jack/Liz should be together.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:14 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 04:00 PM
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LovelyOne
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Its like saying in star wars 3. Hans solo never really did love Leia in Empire strikes back..in movie 3 He decided to go back to being on his own after an entire previous movie of falling for the princess. He remained a bitter and lonly man. Leia didnt start to fall for Hans in movie 2..no no..that was just a spanner in the works..she learned that she wanted to go home and be a princess instead and be with her brother ...and Luke decided to find leia instead of helping his father..so that bit of info of his father still being alive but doomed meant nothing to him..insted he'd rather sit at home with his sis and watch TV smile

*sniff * *sniff* I smell bull SHIT

sure the main difference is that Leia and Luke realized they were bro and sis..

but IMO with PotC the theme has been raised..these two dont belong together..there is a whole theme that suggests if they get married it will be a disaster.

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:30 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 04:17 PM
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katelovespirate
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okay hold on... first of all, have you read something that gives away the ending? thats what this sounds like... is there something we should know?

second, i agree with all these questions. i am utterly confused. it makes no sense. it wasnt just a random moment like in the first film, it was a decisive build up to that climax. i am dumbfounded as to why they would make a movie everyone agreed was too long and fill it with hints leading towards Jack and Liz. its wierd.

sometimes i get the vibe that they honestly DID make a mistake with two... they were meaning to add complexity and depth to Will and Liz's relationship, and accidentally opened a can of worms they had honestly not anticipated.

i still think the movie will be a huge success either way. controversy sells.

ted and terry have made mutliple references to the star wars trilogy, and hotly argued that their characters are far more complex than the star wars band. at one point terry said "When in star wars does Luke grab an oar and whack Han over the head with it, or vice versa?" i think what this is saying is, in star wars, it was relatively simple to spot who was getting the girl, and they fit all the love triangle tension AND subsequent resolution into one film.

these writers pride themselves on being super complex and impossible to figure out, and this is reflected in their convoluted plot and wonderfully changing characters.

we just cant know until we either see the film or get the rest of the script... right?

or did you hear someting you want to share with us? (braces self for bad news)

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 04:18 PM
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LovelyOne
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No i didn't hear bad news but I just got this whole vibe from that thread with the interview.

I agree that in star wars it was more obvious because Lucas has his little habit of making everything obvious in the dialogue etc...but in terms of story telling..its just common practice.its pretty similar..in PotC it's just less obvious where each characters emotions lie...There was a sense of closure with DMC and the sense was that it DID end Jack/Liz hence the fact everyone went back to see it over and over again because the movie had a sense of closure to it where Jack wants Liz and Liz wants Jack...its why we are all here now because we think that its a strong chance that they will end up together.

I know they say they don't like to follow set rules but if they want to make money then they shouldn't mess with the steps and I think they are clever enough to realize it. its one of the single HUGEST mistakes to make when trying to create a successful movie if you mess with the pattern of story telling that people are familiar with..

This is why I'm becoming put off by a Will/Liz ending because its messed with something familiar that I am used to with these kinds of movies..when you see what we see happen in movie 2 and then they end movie 3 Will/Liz...its going to end badly with the audience and critics alike I can promise you..People will feel "lost" is the word..honestly I had to learn this in film studies..people don't like to feel lost when they are watching a story unfold..they like what is familiar to them and it seems as if people are expecting Jack/Liz because its to do with the familiar steps we see in movies..Hans saves leia? Jack saves Elizabeth..if he didnt what was the deal with the godlike shot?

to trick us??..well thats gonna piss off the audience..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 04:52 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 04:43 PM
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LovelyOne
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Its like watching the harry potter movies and in the last one he decides not to go and face up to Voldermort despite the story building UP to it..


would you like that ending? would it make sense after everything you have seen so far?

its just NOT what happens in stories.

IMO they may have been trying to do what they did with move 1..Liz betrays Jack to save will and all that flirting and built up chemistry meant nothing..

but that dosnt work when you dedicate a whole MOVIE to Jack/Liz and chemistry buillding up between them ..and the frigging compass and end kiss/ both characters reactions to it? was just overkill if thats the case

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 05:20 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 05:07 PM
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willofthewisp
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This is playing devil's advocate and also disecting the questions. I'm trying to figure this out myself.




"1. Why is there this whole vibe that the wedding will never happen?"
Technically, the wedding has just been postponed. The only "hints" we get come from villains, Beckett and Tia, that the wedding was not meant to be. You can't trust villains. Plus, Will/Liz fans are left hanging and looking forward to a wedding even more now.
Problem: there is still a vibe that Will and Liz are doomed, especially after her kiss with Jack.

2. "Why raise the point that Jack is thinking of Elizabeth with the compass?"
Technically, there is no proof it is pointing to Liz. Jack is quoted for "not knowing what he wants," meaning the compass can bounce from item/person to item/person. The only time we see it point to Liz, it actually points to the chest.
Problem, there are way too many scenes with Liz figuring out Jack is really a good man to satisfy us that all he wants is treasure. It hints he should want something higher. Whether or not that is Liz, though, remains to be seen.

3. "Why raise the point that Elizabeth wants Jack with the compass?"
This question has no answer that can really make sense in a Will/Liz world. I can't for the life of me see how someone can explain Liz with the compass in any other way besides really wanting Jack.

5. "Why even add a compass that tells a Jack and Liz what they want most in this world is NOT what they thought it was?"
Well, they need a way to get to the chest somehow, and a compass was the obvious choice.
Problem: This is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Even if the compass really is pointing to something else, if they have it in their mind it's pointing to another thing, then that is what they want anyway. Example: when Liz sees the compass pointing to Jack, she doesn't shake it off thinking it's pointing at the lifestyle she wants, or a way to save Will. She instantly thinks she wants him, which means she always has wanted him.

6. "Why show us that Elizabeth wants Jack all the more after the kiss/betrayal?"
Technically, there is the excuse she did it to save everyone and just got caught up in the moment. I think this is partially true because she is a good woman and truly felt she was saving them. LovelyOne won't agree with this, but it's what I think and definitely what Will/Liz people think.
Problem: She leans in for another kiss! She had him chained! It could have been over, but she gave in and almost kissed him again!

7. "Why show us that Jack wants Elizabrth all the more after the kiss/betrayal?"
Some would say this is just Jack's way, that he wants her to be a pirate simply because he knows it's her true self, not because he's falling in love with her. He can have a friendship/mentor relationship with her and just be proud of her in addition to being a little turned on.
Problem: this is really unrealistic because Jack would not willingly risk dying for anything other than love.

8. "why even seperate will/Liz and why have Will show his main interest in his father?"
To be fair, all movie couples have separation and have other things to do besides be with each other. Also, the course of true love never goes smoothly and they need to be tested to be worthy of one another.
Problem: This is all well and good until one or both of them fail the test, and both kind of did, Will forgetting Liz and Liz falling for Jack

9. "Most of all why dedicate a whole movie to something that lots of people are going to get their hopes up to if you are going to dash all of their hopes by movie 3? "
So people will go! Everyone wants to see Jack get hot and heavy with a girl and instead of introducing a new girl, they hand him Keira, one of the most beautiful actresses around and already an established character
Problem: Way too many people liked this and are demanding Liz hook up with Jack.

That's just what I think Will/Liz shippers will say, and my arguements against them. I agree with you, LovelyOne. Keeping it Will/Liz just doesn't make sense and isn't true to the story.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 06:35 PM
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LovelyOne
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quote:
Technically, the wedding has just been postponed. The only "hints" we get come from villains, Beckett and Tia, that the wedding was not meant to be. You can't trust villains. Plus, Will/Liz fans are left hanging and looking forward to a wedding even more now.
Problem: there is still a vibe that Will and Liz are doomed, especially after her kiss with Jack.

Its not just from the villains. Elizabeth hints it. "I think its bad luck for you to see me before the wedding" Jack says it too. And we don't know that Tia is a villain yet. She may not be.



quote:
Technically, there is no proof it is pointing to Liz. Jack is quoted for "not knowing what he wants," meaning the compass can bounce from item/person to item/person. The only time we see it point to Liz, it actually points to the chest.
Problem, there are way too many scenes with Liz figuring out Jack is really a good man to satisfy us that all he wants is treasure. It hints he should want something higher. Whether or not that is Liz, though, remains to be seen.


true^^ and why did Ted suddenly talk about it if they didn't have the intention that we were supposed to realize the compass was acting funny because of Elizabeth being on his mind in movie 2.

He let slip what was really going on probably because it was supposed to be rather obvious in movie 2..We know his compass isn't working for him because he has Liz on the brain Gibbs says he's vexed and we later find out that a woman is vexing Jack and that woman is obviously Elizabeth because he said "why is the rum always gone".

Tia basically says that Jack knows what he wants but is loath to claim it" and we know thats not the real chest because he wants to claim the chest..he's not worried about claiming that at all..something else is vexing him then hello, hello Liz turns up and it all becomes clear. Then we get to him facing Liz herself..when Jack says "it points to what you want most in this world" the music and camera both make the point that Jack looking at her lips is significant to what the compass is doing for him. lol and don't get me started with the whole hat thing again..Jack feeling all confused and out of place trying on hats then Liz comes wearing it basically and he's suddenly "complete"

Also Tia strangely says with an odd choice of words "your key go to A chest and it what lay inside the chest that you seek...don't IT?" IMO that was directly to Jack about what he is loath to claim There is a hint where Elizabeth says "yes J Beckett did say something about a chest" and Jack gives her a big significant look that startles her..as if he is linking back to what Tia was saying to him

Also IMO what happened with the chest...Liz was following the compass and the compass did show her where the chest was but its buried so when she's found the location she doesn't need to want that anymore so it points right over at Jack...then Jack comes and we suddenly see the compass do what Ted said it was doing for Jack earlier:..going forwards and backwards between Liz and the furthest point away and it actually settles on her. and she had just found the chest and it wasn't by coincidence..Jack probably thinks its pointing to the chest for him here but the shot suggests its her and even the way he says it suggests it...IMO by this point he's actually accepted the thought of her being in his life but he doesn't actually know it yet.

Oh and there is also the moment on the canibal island scene where Jack suddenly stops dead in his tracks as soon as Will says she's in danger..only then does he try to escape..


quote:
Well, they need a way to get to the chest somehow, and a compass was the obvious choice.


Yes but they never needed to raise the point that it points at jack at certain times..


quote:
Technically, there is the excuse she did it to save everyone and just got caught up in the moment. I think this is partially true because she is a good woman and truly felt she was saving them. LovelyOne won't agree with this, but it's what I think and definitely what Will/Liz people think.
Problem: She leans in for another kiss! She had him chained! It could have been over, but she gave in and almost kissed him again!


The thing I underlined..thats what I meant with the question laughing out loud

quote:
Some would say this is just Jack's way, that he wants her to be a pirate simply because he knows it's her true self, not because he's falling in love with her. He can have a friendship/mentor relationship with her and just be proud of her in addition to being a little turned on.
Problem: this is really unrealistic because Jack would not willingly risk dying for anything other than love.


Agreed!!. People also fail to notice how he's the one that makes her respond and almost kiss him again..watch what e does after she's looking at his lips...he looks at hers and his smirk fades and he goes to a serious look..Liz spots it and responds.


quote:
To be fair, all movie couples have separation and have other things to do besides be with each other. Also, the course of true love never goes smoothly and they need to be tested to be worthy of one another.
Problem: This is all well and good until one or both of them fail the test, and both kind of did, Will forgetting Liz and Liz falling for Jack


aha! and we also see the new movie couple Jack/Liz go through one of these "separations"..its just like Will/Liz having their "iffy moments" in CotBP..which I will shout so much is a story on its OWN..movie 2/3 are one new story things have started again the pattern of movie writing has started again..sure thy use the history of movie 1 to introduce new characters but IMO movie 1 was very much a story on its own.


quote:
So people will go! Everyone wants to see Jack get hot and heavy with a girl and instead of introducing a new girl, they hand him Keira, one of the most beautiful actresses around and already an established character
Problem: Way too many people liked this and are demanding Liz hook up with Jack.


aye! and people will do this again if there is MORE Jack liz in movie 3 big grin .and it will go past 1 billion..but Will/Liz? nopies...lol it will totally disappoint! it will be like "aww movie 2 was so amazing with the Jack/Liz prospect and now its gone back to basics sad"

quote:
That's just what I think Will/Liz shippers will say, and my arguements against them. I agree with you, LovelyOne. Keeping it Will/Liz just doesn't make sense and isn't true to the story.


Oh I wish I read this part before writing all that^^

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 07:27 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 07:12 PM
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Legendary Thor
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Cant...read...that...much.....need..to...eat...someting


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 07:23 PM
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LovelyOne
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and you know what cracks me up the very most about the W/E shippers on KttC..they still refuse to believe the compass was pointing to Jack a when Liz held it both times and vise versa DESPITE ted saying it did..and it wasn't for sex and it wasnt because she wants to be a pirate. It was pointing to Jack because she wants Jack the most in this world.

she wants to save will most in this world..thats it..and the fact once she finds the means to save him and then the compass points over to jack..forshadows what happens later on with the Kraken I think

She wants to save Will most in this world ..but when she has time to think about it..she's just lost the MAN she wanted most in this world

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 07:45 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 07:41 PM
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Minie Mina
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yea she lost the man she wants most in this world and not exactly in a phsycial way but in an emotianl way.

liz cares for will she does love will but shes NOT IN LOVE with Will.

she fell for jack, and that kiss made her want more.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 08:23 PM
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willofthewisp
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Yeah, LovelyOne, I was just listing people's arguements against the points you were making, and then saying how they really don't make that much sense. Characters are either flat, or not flat, and the three main characters are definitely not flat. There is a lot of development in the second movie, a lot of doors being opened just ajar. It just wouldn't be right to not open those doors and see where they lead. The thing is, they have to keep to the integrity of the characters and however they feel the characters really would act is what they should do. It's our belief here (most people's) that Jack and Liz are the new couple and should remain so. I only hope the writers do.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 09:27 PM
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katelovespirate
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wow willofthewisp... you did a very nice job of playing devil's advocate.
and i agree with you about the kiss.

i dont know guys. i think the other side has just as convincing arguments as us. i think they really did an incredible job of making everything AMBIGUous. they made nothing clear.

they left all these "doomed wedding hints" but mostly from villians.

the threw in the compass, but made it unclear where it was pointing most of the time.

they put in the hottest kiss in the century, but gave it the obvious excuse of how it was just to save the crew.
then she goes back to kiss him again, but still leaves him there to die.

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 10:38 PM
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LovelyOne
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its unclear...well not really..the compass clearly pointed to Jack and Ted even said it did..IMO its a clear message but they are trying to confuse at te same time..it will all make sense if its a Jack/Liz ending but a Will/Liz ending will make most of it seem pointless to add into a movie...if it was to end Will lis then why not show the compass pointing to the chest when Liz looked at it?

No one with a successful movie franchise in mind messes with a familiar backbone of story telling and Jack has basically done it and gained the reward..its not so confusing when you actually place whats happening over the backbone. PotC is just like ANY other movie on the planet when it comes to story telling..Its no different:

Also IMO jack's black moment was when he left Liz and everyone on the pearl not when the kraken ate him because I knew he was going to come back no doubt but IMO when he left the pearl and everyone to die..I officially thought Jack was dead to me..then we get that rebirth where he comes back and totally transforms into the hero with the godlike shot and all I was like: "HOLY ISH! Jack is back and he's gonna kick some royal ass!" that was THE MOST AMAZING and happiest moment to me in the movie after feeling depressed that Jack decided to be a coward..and basically died as a character only to be reborn as the friggin hero big grin:

----------------

8) THE HERO ENDURES THE SUPREME ORDEAL.

This is the moment at which the hero touches bottom. He faces the
possibility of death, brought to the brink in a fight with a
mythical beast. For us, the audience standing outside the cave
waiting for the victor to emerge, it's a black moment. In STAR
WARS, it's the harrowing moment in the bowels of the Death Star,
where Luke, Leia and company are trapped in the giant trash-masher.
Luke is pulled under by the tentacled monster that lives in the
sewage, and is held down so long the audience begins to wonder if
he's dead. E.T. momentarily appears to die on the operating table.

This is a critical moment in any story, an ordeal in which the hero
appears to die and is born again. It's a major source of the magic
of the hero myth. What happens is that the audience has been led to
identify with the hero. We are encouraged to experience the
brink-of- -death feeling with the hero. We are temporarily
depressed, and then we are revived by the hero's return from death.


This is the magic of any well-designed amusement park thrill ride.
Space Mountain or The Great White Knuckler make the passengers feel
like they're going to die, and there's a great thrill that comes
from surviving a moment like that. This is also the trick of rites
of passage and rites of initiation into fraternities and secret
societies. The initiate is forced to taste death and experience
resurrection. You're never more alive than when you think you're
going to die.

9) THE HERO SIEZES THE SWORD.

Having survived death, beaten the dragon, slain the Minotaur, the
hero now takes possession of the treasure he's come seeking.
Sometimes it's a special weapon like a magic sword, or it may be a
token like the Grail or some elixer which can heal the wounded land.

Sometimes the "sword" is knowledge and experience that leads to
greater understanding and a reconciliation with hostile forces.


The hero may settle a conflict with his father or with his shadowy
nemesis. In RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke is reconciled with both, as he
discovers that the dying Darth Vader is his father, and not such a
bad guy after all.

The hero may also be reconciled with a woman. Often she is the
treasure he's come to win or rescue, and there is often a love scene
or sacred marriage at this point. Women in these stories (or men if
the hero is female) tend to be SHAPE-SHIFTERS. They appear to
change in form or age, reflecting the confusing and constantly
changing aspects of the opposite sex as seen from the hero's point
of view. The hero's supreme ordeal may grant him a better
understanding of women, leading to a reconciliation with the
opposite sex.


10) THE ROAD BACK.

The hero's not out of the woods yet. Some of the best chase scenes
come at this point, as the hero is pursued by the vengeful forces
from whom he has stolen the elixir or the treasure. This is the
chase as Luke and friends escape from the Death Star, with Princess
Leia and the plans that will bring down Darth Vader.

If the hero has not yet managed to reconcile with his father or the
gods, they may come raging after him at this point. This is the
moonlight bicycle flight of Elliott and E.T. as they escape from
"Keys" (Peter Coyote), a force representing governmental authority.
By the end of the movie, Keys and Elliott have been reconciled, and
it even looks like Keys will end up as Elliott's father. (The script
not the final cut, guys).

-------------------------------------------

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 11:02 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 10:49 PM
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LovelyOne
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Also in movie 3 Davy Jones , Tia (gods) and Jack's father are gonna come raging after him lol (step 10) Will totally is too!

..also the kraken coming back was a consequence to gaining Elizabeth. IMO he was willing to face it because he'd done it once for her..but he looked nervous and not really all that ready for it again then actually gaining the elixir made this happen to him:

"Sometimes the "sword" is knowledge and experience that leads to
greater understanding and a reconciliation(squaring off/resolution) with hostile forces."

...he was confident to defeat the kraken earlier when she was there clinging to his leg because he's protecting her and his bravery surges through..later the confidence to do it again appears to be failing him..he's gonna stay but then hello she "becomes his"(elixir) and he's ready to now die for this woman and kill that mother ****er..the bravery surges through him..IMO he's learned to fight for the one he loves its what makes him feel brave and happy...that is whats going to help him in situations where an enemy attacks..if he feels like he's doing it for her then he's gonna blow/stab the crap out of it..

The bravest men in war are the ones who fight for those they love smile..the ones with no one in their lives are usually the first to flee like cowards..smile

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 11:30 PM

Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 11:18 PM
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Minie Mina
Lady Lara Croft

Gender: Female
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ok lets resume this lol

jack changed emotionaly. He changed for liz/love. he just did what was right in his heart meaning liz bc liz now has his heart. so he rescued her risking his life knowing that sooner or later the kraken will get him, but wanted liz alive and wanted to proove that he does care. So now he remained as the hero in the end of the film. Leaving Will pissed and elizabeth horny (lol).

jack is now the hero and is liz hero now, hero gets the gurl.


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Old Post Sep 28th, 2006 11:20 PM
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T.Maria
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Location: It's All In The Mind!

Wow LovelyOne...that was a great post! big grin

It makes sense...


"This is a critical moment in any story, an ordeal in which the hero
appears to die and is born again. It's a major source of the magic
of the hero myth. What happens is that the audience has been led to
identify with the hero. We are encouraged to experience the
brink-of- -death feeling with the hero. We are temporarily
depressed, and then we are revived by the hero's return from death."



IMO jack's relationship with the audience is integral to the story. The film needs jack...Jack can stand on his own...Elizabeth can stand on her own...however, i feel that even with the storyline of his father that Will can still not stand alone as a character....

THIS is why the first one worked well...Will did not stand on his own, he had a reason for being there and that reason was elizabeth...

now with the second one, the character seems weakened without the heroine there...


Is this the writers or the actor or the director?
To me he is not three-dimensional enough to be an interesting character study....the characters that are most interesting are the ones with depth...elizabeth and jack have depth (and we should all know because we analyse them to buggery everyday lol)

Anyway back to my point;

The audience wants what jack wants. BUT they want jack to stay Jack...they do not want a drastic change...LovelyOne i agree with u when you say Jack has/will change...but i dont think it will be 'change' in a sense...i think it will be the 'goodness' of a man that was already there in the first place....

Barboza has already stated in POTC1 that it was Jacks downfall... its already there inside him and IMO he has tried to hide it because being a pirate means not showing any 'goodness'...in a sense anyway.

The audience are going to the end and back with Jack...
the light when elizabeth looked up from his boots on the pearl shows clearly he is the hero....

Ted and Terry have stated that this is jack's story...at the end jack got the kiss from the girl....

T&T realised from the first POTC that jack sells...so they needed to give him a girl...and they needed to give him one that was already planted within the 'island' scene in 1....

As i have always said;

The first seed of the Jack/Elizabeth relationship was planted within the Island scene...therefore if there WAS a sequel then the audience would not be utterly confused by the jack/liz realtionship taking a new turn

Has anyone ever noticed the camera angles also on the two kisses in DMC??

Will and liz is a far away shot and there are no closeups....(it looks uninteresting...)

Jack and liz has closeups and SUPER CLOSEUPS! (even when there is NO kiss and just 'curiosity'!!!...and this makes it HOTT!)

that to me is a BIG telltale sign.....


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LovelyOne
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no the drastic change has happened and people are in love with it..Jack of movie 1 would have never ended like that..

Jack has changed totally as a character..honestly the Jack of movie 1 and 2 are so different and the audience dont even seem to notice it because its all heading to positive places(1 billion they know what they are doing with Jack/Liz)...these changes..they know its all just Jack and its coming from his heart...and IMO its always been about him wanting to love someone and this is whats happening IMO..IMO his arc appears to be. learning to be brave and happy because LOVE is what makes that happen..Barobssa tells him its a weakness?? I dont buy that because the Jack who didnt accept love in his life was the coward/weakling...and we saw that in movie 1 and with most of movie 2...and I was getting a bit pissed off with seeing Jack constantly being the coward and fleeing when people needed him they kinda overkilled it with his movie so that by the end of it you welcome the huge transformation in character where he actually changes and become better for one reason or another.

if they step back on this trust me people will be feeling lost..if the familiar pattern of steps is messed with then people wont like it...Jack's story is no where near finished yet..he's only at step 9/10. Steps 10, 11, 12 are the most spectacular in the story..

Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 28th, 2006 at 11:47 PM

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