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OK. I'm certain that Jack in PotC 2/3 is following this
Started by: LovelyOne

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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

OK. I'm certain that Jack in PotC 2/3 is following this

and he's only at step 10! I'm certain

The stages of the HERO are:

1) THE HERO IS INTRODUCED IN HIS ORDINARY WORLD.

Most stories take place in a special world, a world that is new and
alien to its hero. If you're going to tell a story about a fish out
of his customary element, you first have to create a contrast by
showing him in his mundane, ordinary world. In WITNESS you see both
the Amish boy and the policeman in their ordinary worlds before they
are thrust into alien worlds -- the farmboy into the city, and the
city cop into the unfamiliar countryside. In STAR WARS you see Luke
Skywalker bored to death as a farmboy before he takes on the
universe.

(to me! Jack looking for the means to save his own skin is the ordinary world its what he's used to..the thing that is getting to him are his feelings for Elizabeth IMO that is the special world. Ted Elliot explained on Keeptothecode/boxofficemojo that Jack was fearing the thought of making Liz an obligation)

"Box Office Mojo: What is the meaning of the series?
Ted Elliott: It's a study of what is a pirate. How free can you really be? What are those trade-offs? Jack kind of represents the ultimate free man? he really has no obligations to anybody, and, obviously, if you make an obligation to somebody, you're limiting your own freedom. But, if you're not willing to limit your own freedom, you can't have those relationships. If you look at Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest from that point of view,you kind of see what really leads to Jack's ultimate fate and why Elizabeth does what she does.
-from boxofficemojo.com"

Ted Elliot keeptothecode.com -"The reason we included the "Why is the rum always gone?" line was not just as a callback to the first movie; it was intended to remind audiences of the specific circumstances that it referenced, and so act as a cue to what Jack had on his mind: the woman who he was first attracted to and then infuriated with (or: the woman who Jack never would have been infuriated with if he had not been attracted to).

So, the deal with compass: Jack simultaneously wanted Elizabeth and wanted to be as far from Elizabeth as possible. Whichever of those he wanted most would cause him to immediately want the other more ... so the compass would not settle, swinging between "Port Royal" and "antipode of Port Royal" (which is sort-of-but-not-quite Singapore, btw).

2) THE CALL TO ADVENTURE.

The hero is presented with a problem, challenge, or adventure.
Maybe the land is dying, as in the Arthur stories about the search
for the Holy Grail. In STAR WARS again, it's Princess Leia's
holographic message to Obi Wan Kenobi, who asks Luke to join in the
quest. In detective stories, it's the hero accepting a new case.
In romantic comedies it could be the first sight of that special --
but annoying someone the hero or heroine will be pursuing/sparring
with the remainder of the story.

(IMO! this could be bootstrap telling him that the kraken is his responsibility and Will coming and asking Jack to help him save Elizabeth as a responsibility. Jack is reluctant to help and face up to her. I do believe that facing up to the Kraken and facing up to Elizabeth is pretty much the same deal.he doesn't want to face up to anything that is on his shoulders..all he wants is to save himself)

3) THE HERO IS RELUCTANT AT FIRST.

Often at this point, the hero balks at the threshold of adventure.
After all, he or she is facing the greatest of all fears -- fear of
the unknown. At this point Luke refuses Obi Wan's call to adventure,
and returns to his aunt and uncle's farmhouse, only to find they
have been barbqued by the Emperor's stormtroopers. Suddenly Luke is
no longer reluctant, and is eager to undertake the adventure. He is
motivated.

(So yeah he runs away from facing up to the kraken..and at the same time he refuses to save Liz when Will asks..he doesn't want to face up to her as a responsibility...he doesn't want to face up to the Kraken as a responsibility)

4) THE HERO IS ENCOURAGED BY THE WISE OLD MAN OR WOMAN.

By this time many stories will have introduced a Merlin-like
character who is the hero's mentor. In JAWS it's the crusty Robert
Shaw character who knows all about sharks; in the mythology of the
Mary Tyler Moore Show, it's Lou Grant. The mentor gives advice and
sometimes magical weapons. This is Obi Wan Kenobi giving Luke
Skywalker his father's light sabre.

The mentor can only go so far with the hero. Eventually the hero
must face the unknown by himself. Sometimes the wise old man is
required to give the hero a swift kick in the pants to get the
adventure going.

(This is TIA..and according to Naomi Harris she has the ability to see into each characters souls and find out what their true desires are. With Jack..she knows darn well that it is Elizabeth because of that line after she asks him about his compass "ayee Jack Sparrow does not know what he want!, Or do know but are loath to claim it for your own"..she's not talking about the chest..Jack WANTS the chest..he's just worried about making Elizabeth a partner..he fears making obligations to anyone but himself...IMO she doesn't help him at ALL when it comes to finding that heart. overcome the fear of making Liz an obligation..It helps in an emotional way when it comes to facing his inmost cave)

5) THE HERO PASSES THE FIRST THRESHOLD.

He fully enters the special world of his story for the first time.
This is the moment at which the story takes off and the adventure
gets going. The balloon goes up, the romance begins, the plane or
spaceship blasts off, the wagon train gets rolling. Dorothy sets
out on the Yellow Brick Road. The hero is now committed to his
journey... and there's no turning back.

(IMO Tia knows that Jack will bump ito Elizabeth in tortuga..she also has just removed Will and sent him on his way to his "destiny"..he's not told where to look for the heart..he just sets off and bumps into his little secret obsession..ELIZABETH..and what do we see all of a sudden? He actually TAKES her on board which is a huge step from running away from her...and IMO its not all about her helping him find the chest..I think that may just be an excuse to himself in a way. There is a moment where he says "It points to what you want most in this world" the camera zooms in, the music is emotional and he hesitates and looks down at her lips..its a significant moment..the man wants her and he's willing to take her on board now. AND the mission to the chest can now start)

6) THE HERO ENCOUNTERS TESTS AND HELPERS.

The hero is forced to make allies and enemies in the special world,
and to pass certain tests and challenges that are part of his
training. In STAR WARS, the cantina is the setting for the forging
of an important alliance with Han Solo, and the start of an
important enmity with Jabba The Hut. In CASABLANCA, Rick's Cafe is
the setting for the "alliances and enmities" phase, and in many
westersn it's the saloon where these relationships are established.

The tests and challenges phase is represented in STAR WARS by the
scene of Obi Wan teaching Luke about the Force, as Luke is made to
learn by fighting blindfolded. The early laser battles with the
Imperial Fighters are another test which Luke passes successfully.

(basically here the hero is supposed to learn the terms of the special world(in Jack's case Elizabeth)..and in THIS case he learns the ins and outs of Elizabeth's mind..what she expects if him..how to make her his...I believe this is what all the Jack/Liz moments were all about..all the flirty stuff etc. He also made an alliance with Norrington..which was a mistake, he's an enemy in terms of the other little "fake quest" Jack is on..It's the part where Jack encounters all the shell people for the first time..I also think this is where he flees..JoD scared the crap out of him.."it betrayed him"..IMO it helps with the next step

7) THE HERO REACHES THE INNERMOST CAVE

The hero comes at last to a dangerous place, often deep underground,
where the object of his quest is hidden. In the Arthurian stories
the Chapel Perilous is the dangerous chamber where the seeker finds
the Grail. In many myths the hero has to descend into hell to
retrieve a loved one, or into a cave to fight a dragon and gain a
treasure. It's Theseus going into the Labyrinth to face the
Minotaur. In STAR WARS it's Luke and company being sucked into the
Death Star where they will rescue Princess Leia. Sometimes it's the
hero entering the headquarters of his nemesis; and sometimes it's
just the hero going into his or her own dream world to confront his
or hers worst fears... and overcome them.

(Jack is in a problem with his emotions..He's terrified to face up to the responsibility of the kraken and at the same time is terrified of making Elizabeth and obligation isn't he? lol)

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Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 2nd, 2006 at 05:04 PM

Oct 2nd, 2006 04:56 PM

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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

8) THE HERO ENDURES THE SUPREME ORDEAL.

This is the moment at which the hero touches bottom. He faces the
possibility of death, brought to the brink in a fight with a
mythical beast. For us, the audience standing outside the cave
waiting for the victor to emerge, it's a black moment. In STAR
WARS, it's the harrowing moment in the bowels of the Death Star,
where Luke, Leia and company are trapped in the giant trash-masher.
Luke is pulled under by the tentacled monster that lives in the
sewage, and is held down so long the audience begins to wonder if
he's dead. E.T. momentarily appears to die on the operating table.

This is a critical moment in any story, an ordeal in which the hero
appears to die and is born again. It's a major source of the magic
of the hero myth. What happens is that the audience has been led to
identify with the hero. We are encouraged to experience the
brink-of- -death feeling with the hero. We are temporarily
depressed, and then we are revived by the hero's return from death.

(right here? IMO this is the whole thing where Jack flees and Liz sees him..Jack died as a character for me here..I was like OMG jack how could you?....He looks at the compass? ..then BAM he comes back and is basically a GOD I was like "YES! JACK IS BACK!" that was the most emotionally satisfying moment for me in the entire movie..he faces up to making Liz an obligation and he faces up to the Kraken and blows the crap out of it..I don't consider the moment where he dies the black moment..I knew that Jack is going to come back...it would be a bad Idea to place that as a cliffhanger because the emotional feeling when he comes back in movie 3 isn't as great..IMO this whole death with the Kraken is step 10)

9) THE HERO SIEZES THE SWORD.

Having survived death, beaten the dragon, slain the Minotaur, the
hero now takes possession of the treasure he's come seeking.
Sometimes it's a special weapon like a magic sword, or it may be a
token like the Grail or some elixer which can heal the wounded land.

Sometimes the "sword" is knowledge and experience that leads to
greater understanding and a reconciliation with hostile forces.

The hero may settle a conflict with his father or with his shadowy
nemesis. In RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke is reconciled with both, as he
discovers that the dying Darth Vader is his father, and not such a
bad guy after all.

The hero may also be reconciled with a woman. Often she is the
treasure he's come to win or rescue, and there is often a love scene
or sacred marriage at this point. Women in these stories (or men if
the hero is female) tend to be SHAPE-SHIFTERS. They appear to
change in form or age, reflecting the confusing and constantly
changing aspects of the opposite sex as seen from the hero's point
of view. The hero's supreme ordeal may grant him a better
understanding of women, leading to a reconciliation with the
opposite sex.

(think its obvious what Jack's reward was..he feels as if he has Liz to himself..she is his..the smile says it all..the confidence we then see when he faces the kraken makesme think he feels he's doing it for her)

10) THE ROAD BACK.

The hero's not out of the woods yet. Some of the best chase scenes
come at this point, as the hero is pursued by the vengeful forces
from whom he has stolen the elixir or the treasure. This is the
chase as Luke and friends escape from the Death Star, with Princess
Leia and the plans that will bring down Darth Vader.

If the hero has not yet managed to reconcile with his father or the
gods, they may come raging after him at this point. This is the
moonlight bicycle flight of Elliott and E.T. as they escape from
"Keys" (Peter Coyote), a force representing governmental authority.
By the end of the movie, Keys and Elliott have been reconciled, and
it even looks like Keys will end up as Elliott's father. (The script
not the final cut, guys).

(I think Jack ends movie 2 hovering on this point..he has the reward and he needs to face the consequences of gaining her. The Kraken of course comes back and he must face up to it. move 3?..Will saw the kiss..Davy's heart is missing..the EITC ext

11) RESURRECTION.

The hero emerges from the special world, transformed by his
experience. There is often a replay here of the mock
death-and-rebirth of stage 8, as the hero once again faces death and
survives. Each ordeal wins him new command over the Force. He is
transformed into a new being by his experience.

12) RETURN WITH THE ELIXIR.

The hero comes back to his ordinary world, but his adventure would
be meaningless unless he brought back the elixir, treasure, or some
lesson from the special world. Sometimes it's just knowledge or
experience, but unless he comes back with the exlixir or some boon
to mankind, he's doomed to repeat the adventure until he does. Many
comedies use this ending, as a foolish character refuses to learn
his lesson and embarks on the same folly that got him in trouble in
the first place.

Sometimes the boon is treasure won on the quest, or love, or just
the knowledge that the special world exists and can be survived.
Sometimes it's just coming home with a good story to tell.

IMO Jack SHOULD return home with Elizabeth by the end of movie 3 if he is following these steps like this..this is why I just don't understand what I have learned about the ending of AWE

make of it what you will..but IMO its all about Jack overcoming his fear of being with Elizabeth...as ted said..its the meaning of the entire series

Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 2nd, 2006 at 05:10 PM

Oct 2nd, 2006 04:56 PM

calypso
Senior Member

Gender:
Location: United States

You have done a wonderful job of defining each of the steps. Thanx.

We can only hope.

Oct 2nd, 2006 06:22 PM

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shannstar79
Jack's Girl

Gender: Female
Location: Birmingham, Al

I TOTALLY AGREEE!!!!!!!! Its amazing its to the T

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Oct 2nd, 2006 06:42 PM

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LovelyOne
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba

you can even put Elizabeth and Will over this pattern and their true call to adventure is NOT each other..for Liz its Jack and for Will its his dad/the Dutchman/Davy/fear of helping anyone but liz

Will is a hard character to understand..probably because he is so 1 dimensional

Oct 2nd, 2006 07:52 PM

Minie Mina
Lady Lara Croft

Gender: Female
Location: Look behind you, damnit!

i really do agree. i still have faith in u lovelyone..i dont want u to loose that or ur loose something else LOL dont mind me im just trying to be funny so i can cheer u up a bit.

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