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Beta Ray Bill/Stardust vs Gladiator/Black Bolt
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Nihilist
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Beta Ray Bill/Stardust vs Gladiator/Black Bolt

Both teams not holding back.

Fight in space.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2010 11:27 PM
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carver9
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Good fight. Perfect fight.

I'm giving this to Beta Ray Bill and SD.

Two planet crushers (bill and glads) against each other and two power houses (black bolt SD) against each other.

I think bill will over come glads and Black bolt just does not have the tools to drop stardust.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2010 11:36 PM
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Harbinger
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Team one, 8/10.


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2010 11:47 PM
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Enyalus
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I have to use ABC logic to set this up, but my point is to show that Gladiator is more powerful than BRB:

Against Tyrant, Gladiator fared far better than BRB did. Two Stormbreaker throws availed BRB nothing before getting one-shotted. Whereas Gladiator was able to briefly match Tyrant's energy output with his heat vision, then got BRB thrown into him, THEN got cheap shotted with Tyrant's eyebeams into his face...and only then went down with an elbow smash.

Then there's Thor vs. Hyperion. Hyperion who took Thor's Mjolnir throw bouncing off his chest and unphased and who looked distinctly superior to Thor. Yet, Hyperion vs. Gladiator ended with Gladiator outfighting him and breaking his neck, even after Hyperion attempted to fight like a little girl and pull his hair.

And then there's Gladiator's matchup against Masterson Thor (and Wonder Man), in which Gladiator was clearly superior until the PIS Living Lightning ploy.

Overall, that makes me think Gladiator is superior to Bill. So he gets the win head to head. As for Stardust, she hasn't impressed me that much. I'd give her a split against Blackbolt, being generous. It still isn't enough to give Team One the victory.

Old Post Feb 21st, 2010 11:55 PM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
I have to use ABC logic to set this up, but my point is to show that Gladiator is more powerful than BRB:

Against Tyrant, Gladiator fared far better than BRB did. Two Stormbreaker throws availed BRB nothing before getting one-shotted. Whereas Gladiator was able to briefly match Tyrant's energy output with his heat vision, then got BRB thrown into him, THEN got cheap shotted with Tyrant's eyebeams into his face...and only then went down with an elbow smash.

Then there's Thor vs. Hyperion. Hyperion who took Thor's Mjolnir throw bouncing off his chest and unphased and who looked distinctly superior to Thor. Yet, Hyperion vs. Gladiator ended with Gladiator outfighting him and breaking his neck, even after Hyperion attempted to fight like a little girl and pull his hair.

And then there's Gladiator's matchup against Masterson Thor (and Wonder Man), in which Gladiator was clearly superior until the PIS Living Lightning ploy.

Overall, that makes me think Gladiator is superior to Bill. So he gets the win head to head. As for Stardust, she hasn't impressed me that much. I'd give her a split against Blackbolt, being generous. It still isn't enough to give Team One the victory.


Good point but I think bill received some kind of amp during the time he received his powers back.

The guy has been bustinig planets as easily as day.

He also defeated a universal threat (aestroth), ripped through star dust like she was nothing and generated more than enough power to protect an injured galactus (something that Surfer and Stardust together was unable to do).


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Old Post Feb 21st, 2010 11:59 PM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
and generated more than enough power to protect an injured galactus (something that Surfer and Stardust together was unable to do).

Well yeah. If he fights with his restraints off so that he burns all of his power up for this one battle, BRB > Gladiator.

I don't think we should look at it like that though.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:01 AM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
Well yeah. If he fights with his restraints off so that he burns all of his power up for this one battle, BRB > Gladiator.

I don't think we should look at it like that though.


LOL, good point BUT again, some of the things that Bill was doing clearly shows that he received some kind of amp.

Him not even registering that he was in the core of a sun that was going super nova proves this.

Him crushing two planets and tanking a planet exploding on him proves this.

Him blasting through Galactus hull as easily as he did not even going fatigue proves this.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:07 AM
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Digi
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
I have to use ABC logic to set this up, but my point is to show that Gladiator is more powerful than BRB:

Against Tyrant, Gladiator fared far better than BRB did. Two Stormbreaker throws availed BRB nothing before getting one-shotted. Whereas Gladiator was able to briefly match Tyrant's energy output with his heat vision, then got BRB thrown into him, THEN got cheap shotted with Tyrant's eyebeams into his face...and only then went down with an elbow smash.

Then there's Thor vs. Hyperion. Hyperion who took Thor's Mjolnir throw bouncing off his chest and unphased and who looked distinctly superior to Thor. Yet, Hyperion vs. Gladiator ended with Gladiator outfighting him and breaking his neck, even after Hyperion attempted to fight like a little girl and pull his hair.

And then there's Gladiator's matchup against Masterson Thor (and Wonder Man), in which Gladiator was clearly superior until the PIS Living Lightning ploy.

Overall, that makes me think Gladiator is superior to Bill. So he gets the win head to head. As for Stardust, she hasn't impressed me that much. I'd give her a split against Blackbolt, being generous. It still isn't enough to give Team One the victory.


If you're going to do ABC's, you have to try to work it both ways. Thor has beaten Glads H2H and Marvel has gone out of their way to show that Bill is Thor's equal in a brawl-style fight that these three always seem to devolve into in the comics.

Then there's also Bill/Glads respective encounters with Surfer, in which Bill comes out looking like the better of the two. Heck, Surfer once thrashed an opponent that Gladiator couldn't beat when amped by the Uni-Power. And Bill has given Surfer a hard time.

I'm not saying you're wrong, though I do disagree with your conclusion. But you were right to be cautious in using ABC logic, because in this case it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. My own logic is not necessarily bullet-proof either up there, but that's deliberate because I'm using the same method that you did.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:07 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
Then there's Thor vs. Hyperion. Hyperion who took Thor's Mjolnir throw bouncing off his chest and unphased and who looked distinctly superior to Thor. Yet, Hyperion vs. Gladiator ended with Gladiator outfighting him and breaking his neck, even after Hyperion attempted to fight like a little girl and pull his hair.


erm. thor smacked hype around pretty easily in later match-ups. in that glads/hype fight, it was stated that their power levels were pretty identical. glads won because he was a better fighter and because hype wasn't used to battling anyone in his power level.

bill/glads is pretty close, but i's say SD is quite a bit beyond BB. be interesting to see of bill could absorb the scream though.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:08 AM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
LOL, good point BUT again, some of the things that Bill was doing clearly shows that he received some kind of amp.

Him not even registering that he was in the core of a sun that was going super nova proves this.

Him crushing two planets and tanking a planet exploding on him proves this.

Him blasting through Galactus hull as easily as he did not even going fatigue proves this.

I don't really think so. Thor's done just as well against Galactus (better, actually) and Thor's done even better against SS than BRB did. Thor and BRB are nearly equal, so I don't find it surprising that they finally write BRB like he is.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:09 AM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
I don't really think so. Thor's done just as well against Galactus (better, actually) and Thor's done even better against SS than BRB did. Thor and BRB are nearly equal, so I don't find it surprising that they finally write BRB like he is.


Well, honestly, I dont even count the Bill and Surfer fight since Surfer basically had to sneak attack bill in order to drop him (board to the back of the head).

If the sneak attack never happened, I think the fight would have went to Bill since he clearly had the advantage in the beginning.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:11 AM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
If you're going to do ABC's, you have to try to work it both ways. Thor has beaten Glads H2H and Marvel has gone out of their way to show that Bill is Thor's equal in a brawl-style fight that these three always seem to devolve into in the comics.

That I know of, Masterson Thor vs. Gladiator is their only canon fight. The fight between Gladiator and Thor (plus Thor Girl) in v2 of Thor was a future version of Gladiator and really shouldn't be used as evidence (IMO. You're the mod, of course.) But even if you did use it, Glads beat both Thor and Thor Girl the first time around and was only beaten by Thor later in a rematch.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Digi
Then there's also Bill/Glads respective encounters with Surfer, in which Bill comes out looking like the better of the two. Heck, Surfer once thrashed an opponent that Gladiator couldn't beat when amped by the Uni-Power. And Bill has given Surfer a hard time.

In Godhunter Surfer is shown pretty clearly to me to be Bill's superior. The only Glads/Surfer confrontation I know of isn't canon (where they fight over Ego), and in it they are virtually even in power.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:13 AM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
erm. thor smacked hype around pretty easily in later match-ups..

embarrasment I'm actually not aware of those encounters...but since you're handling the Thor/BRB side of things with Galan, you could be nice and maybe PM me the issue #'s. wink Good feat for Thor if so.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
but i's say SD is quite a bit beyond BB. be interesting to see of bill could absorb the scream though.

Without resorting to becoming Quanchi and asking "Why?" ...Why do you see SD as beyond BB? Anything in particular you're looking at, or...?

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:16 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus

That I know of, Masterson Thor vs. Gladiator is their only canon fight. The fight between Gladiator and Thor (plus Thor Girl) in v2 of Thor was a future version of Gladiator and really shouldn't be used as evidence (IMO. You're the mod, of course.) But even if you did use it, Glads beat both Thor and Thor Girl the first time around and was only beaten by Thor later in a rematch.


there was the draw in the black celestial arc as well.

quote:

In Godhunter Surfer is shown pretty clearly to me to be Bill's superior. The only Glads/Surfer confrontation I know of isn't canon (where they fight over Ego), and in it they are virtually even in power. [/B]


ss met glads in canon and pretty much told him he could radiate his weakness and kill him, so the fight never happened.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:17 AM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
ss met glads in canon and pretty much told him he could radiate his weakness and kill him, so the fight never happened.

And by confrontation, I meant fight. stick out tongue I'm aware of what you're talking about.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:20 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus

embarrasment I'm actually not aware of those encounters...but since you're handling the Thor/BRB side of things with Galan, you could be nice and maybe PM me the issue #'s. wink Good feat for Thor if so.


lol

i'd need to find them, but i'll get around to it for you. they actually met a couple times. the hammer never bounced off again . . .


quote:
Without resorting to becoming Quanchi and asking "Why?" ...Why do you see SD as beyond BB? Anything in particular you're looking at, or...?


i think pure scope of power. for instance, if SD opened a black hole on BB, he'd be dead. and such a feat is clearly well beyond BB's scope of power. withstanding planet-busting shots, just the sheer magnitude of blasting power even. i think BB would need to go for his biggest shot immediately, but even that wouldn't destroy SD--least not permanently.

then there was the time thor handled BB pretty easily by simply damaging his antennae. just seems SD has a lot more options than BB and can dish out more damage, imo.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:21 AM
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leonidas
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
And by confrontation, I meant fight. stick out tongue I'm aware of what you're talking about.


laughing out loud

yeah yeah. glads just knew better than to try and hang 10 with norrin. cool


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:22 AM
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carver9
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by leonidas
lol

i'd need to find them, but i'll get around to it for you. they actually met a couple times. the hammer never bounced off again . . .




i think pure scope of power. for instance, if SD opened a black hole on BB, he'd be dead. and such a feat is clearly well beyond BB's scope of power. withstanding planet-busting shots, just the sheer magnitude of blasting power even. i think BB would need to go for his biggest shot immediately, but even that wouldn't destroy SD--least not permanently.

then there was the time thor handled BB pretty easily by simply damaging his antennae. just seems SD has a lot more options than BB and can dish out more damage, imo.


I agree with all that you said about Black Bolt and Star dust. One thing though, Black bolt can also create black holes.


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:24 AM
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Rage.Of.Olympus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Enyalus
I have to use ABC logic to set this up, but my point is to show that Gladiator is more powerful than BRB:

Against Tyrant, Gladiator fared far better than BRB did. Two Stormbreaker throws availed BRB nothing before getting one-shotted. Whereas Gladiator was able to briefly match Tyrant's energy output with his heat vision, then got BRB thrown into him, THEN got cheap shotted with Tyrant's eyebeams into his face...and only then went down with an elbow smash.

Then there's Thor vs. Hyperion. Hyperion who took Thor's Mjolnir throw bouncing off his chest and unphased and who looked distinctly superior to Thor. Yet, Hyperion vs. Gladiator ended with Gladiator outfighting him and breaking his neck, even after Hyperion attempted to fight like a little girl and pull his hair.

And then there's Gladiator's matchup against Masterson Thor (and Wonder Man), in which Gladiator was clearly superior until the PIS Living Lightning ploy.

Overall, that makes me think Gladiator is superior to Bill. So he gets the win head to head. As for Stardust, she hasn't impressed me that much. I'd give her a split against Blackbolt, being generous. It still isn't enough to give Team One the victory.


Yea, let's ignore the fact that Thor stated that the reason Thor's throw bounced off of Hyperion's chest was because he was holding back, hence why a single throw from him downed and had the good Hyperion crawling easily and I believe the good Hyperion was the more powerful one. And how in the hell did the evil Hyperion look significantly superior to Thor, in that fight? Did we read the same encounter?

And Thor smacked away the good Hyperion aside like a bug in an Avenger's encounter (We didn't see him for entire pages as I recall.).

How was Gladiator clearly superior to Masterson Thor? The hell are you talking about? As a matter of fact when they locked strength, Gladiator and Masterson where dead equal. Gladiator was obviously the better fighter, and Masterson was always doubting himself, etc. during that time period. He was even bragging about how Masterson was not a warrior etc. among other things. Oh and Masterson's doubts significantly hindered him. I mean, it seemed like his durability literally took a dive when he doubted himself. And how was the Living Lightning scene P.I.S? Thor has enough control to literally repower the Living Lightning during the Ronan fight.

I'd also address the Bil comments but honestly, I don't care enough about Bill but you haven't proven his superior.

Oh and welcome back Enyalus! You've been missed. Where have you been?


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Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:31 AM
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Enyalus
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yea, let's ignore the fact that Thor stated that the reason Thor's throw bounced off of Hyperion's chest was because he was holding back, hence why a single throw from him downed and had the good Hyperion crawling easily and I believe the good Hyperion was the more powerful one. And how in the hell did the evil Hyperion look significantly superior to Thor, in that fight? Did we read the same encounter?

And Thor smacked away the good Hyperion aside like a bug in an Avenger's encounter (We didn't see him for entire pages as I recall.).

How was Gladiator clearly superior to Masterson Thor? The hell are you talking about? As a matter of fact when they locked strength, Gladiator and Masterson where dead equal. Gladiator was obviously the better fighter, and Masterson was always doubting himself, etc. during that time period. He was even bragging about how Masterson was not a warrior etc. among other things. Oh and Masterson's doubts significantly hindered him. I mean, it seemed like his durability literally took a dive when he doubted himself. And how was the Living Lightning scene P.I.S? Thor has enough control to literally repower the Living Lightning during the Ronan fight.

I'd also address the Bil comments but honestly, I don't care enough about Bill but you haven't proven his superior.

Oh and welcome back Enyalus! You've been missed. Where have you been?

Where were you to defend Thor's honor for the past few weeks? With Kris not here, you're needed more than ever. stick out tongue

As for Gladiator looking clearly superior to Masterson Thor, you had to have seen it. Masterson couldn't even hurt Gladiator. Gladiator had the better durability. Gladiator was faster (by far). Gladiator had better fighting skills. And them locking up so that their strength looked equal doesn't mean much. I mean, same thing happened with Gladiator and Colossus but we know Gladiator's vastly stronger. I think he simply wasn't serious. He knew he had Masterson Thor dead to rights. Hell, if he hadn't stood over him and jobbed, Masterson wouldn't have had time to summon Living Lightning down, anyway. That's one reason its PIS.

But thanks for the welcome back. I'm glad you're still around, too.

Old Post Feb 22nd, 2010 12:38 AM
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