I rented both movies recently and I think a fight or two is in order.
Zatoichi is a blind swordsmen who wonders around and aimlessly kills people that give him shit. Since I've only seen one Zatoichi movie, I'll be using the Zatoichi from that one(the 2003 one). I know there are a ton more but I haven't seen 'em so, forget them.
Leonidus shouldn't need any introduction because the lot of you have probably seen 300 before. He's a Spartan King and knows his way around a spear and shield.
Round 1: Takes place at the Hot Gates(Daytime), where the 300 fought the Persians. Leonidus has his spear and armor from the movies but nothing else. Zatoichi get's his cane sword thing as usual.
Round 2: Takes place on a beach at night. Leonidus gets his shield and a sword along with his spear and armor. Zatoichi gets the same stuff. There is a bonfire so Leonidus can see better.
So who wins? The leet Japanese blind guy or the Spartan King?
Edit: I can't spell Leonidas right. Fail >(
Last edited by AuraAngel on Jan 6th, 2011 at 08:06 PM
Leonidas, in both scenarios. The first scenario he'll just get him from distance with the spear. The second will be even easier and probably end the same way as my first comment.
Zatoichi has shown to be able to block oncoming projectiles.
Like here at 4:11.
Not that a spear and short sword or knife are exactly the same but he could probably react to it I think.
Edit: Also, I fail to see how the second scenario would be easier for Leonidas to kill him with a spear. He wouldn't be able to see as well or I wouldn't think he could.
Edit: I forgot to put this in the OP but CIS is on.
__________________
Last edited by AuraAngel on Jan 6th, 2011 at 08:31 PM
Even if he didn't throw the spear in the first scenario he still has the ability to keep him at range, with strong thrust attacks. I think he will throw it though and I can't see a small sword deflecting a heavy spear enough.It could land anywhere on Zatoichi and still cause him major damage, certainly enough to take his skill/reactions/endurance down.
As for the second you've given Leonidas his shield, sword, spear and armor against Zatoichi who is without armor and a sword. Its not difficult to surmise that he would block Zatoichis attacks with ease, holding the shield over his unprotected body with his greaves and helmet protecting his head. Leonidas bats the sword aside and thrusts with spear, killing him easily. Leonidas can also use his shield offensively too, knocking Zatoichi out then spearing him.
Throwing the spear is likely what he will do in the first scenario. But if Zatoichi can block a projectile, he can likely also dodge it. If he chooses to block it, it may hurt if it hits him. He's strong though and he can likely take any nonfatal blow if he can't block it well or dodge it. Which leaves Leonidas weaponless and ****ed.
While the second scenario of course is supposed to be closer. But it also gives Zatoichi a good advantage as well. It's considerably darker, which Zatoichi can fight well in. While the shield presents a very big problem, it's not impossible to get around a shield. Zatoichi could think of a way around it if he manages to survive long enough.
Then Leonidas will take out Zatoichis sword arm with the spear either by throwing or thrusting. If not he'll aim a powerful throw for center mass, any deflection by that sword could surely take him in the gut, arm (any)neck, leg (takes out the artery possibly). Also the environment favours Leonidas heavily, that area is mountainous, rocky and has a multitude of places that Leonidas could mount an attack.
It would be very difficult getting around the shield when it protects from knee to neck. Leonidas is an experienced user of the shield both defensively and offensively. Zatoichi has no armour and Leonidas has either several tries with the spear or sword in combination with the shield.
Thrusting will literally just give Zatoichi an opportunity to render his only weapon in scenario one to a stick. Not that he'd have much time before Zatoichi kills him to worry about in. If he wants the win here, he would need a good throw. And while it may seem like Zatoichi wouldn't be strong enough to block a thrown spear, he has in fact cut through a statue made of some kind of stone. He's strong. And the area gives Zatoichi an advantage as well. With big rocks come little rocks, that make quite a bit of noise while walking on them.
Yes, which is why this scenario is much more difficult for Zatoichi. In the 2003 film, he doesn't fight someone with a shield. It gives Leonidas an advantage but not exactly a win. The area is much more advantageous for him but it's not completely unfair. Leonidus will have a hard time hitting someone as fast as Zatoichi with any sword or spear thrusts.
Yes, an opportunity, its not the same as meaning he will. Zaitoichi still has to get in close and the very point of the spear is to keep someone at a distance. Leonidas could find a position among the rocks, where there's just enough room for him to get the spear through, but not enough for a sword swing to take out his weapon. He then thrusts the sword through the crevice and into Zatoichi's back. Or he throws it at a distance/angle that would make it impossible to deflect, speed over small distance wins all the time.
No he won't have a hard time hitting him once he's battered him into a corner or on the ground using oppressive, yet controlled, blows with his shield then spears him in the throat/heart. Or Zatoichi strikes, Leonidas bats his sword arm away leaving his body unprotected/unarmoured, long spear goes into heart. Zatoichi dies. This happens so many times in 300 against swordsmen who are even armoured so I don't even know why I am bothering.
That thing looked like a terrible B-movie with no plot, terrible effects, and little to no acting ability required.....
Anyways, your forgetting that Leonidas, with a shield covering him from neck to thigh, doesnt have to move at all, he can just wait for Zatoichi to come to him, and stab him
Also, Leonidas threw a spear that weighed around 15 pounds (its 6 feets long and made of bronze and wood) about 50 feet (counting the distance it had to go up) and it would have taken Xerxes between the eyes if he hadnt moved his head
Also, Leonidas fought at Thermopylae and was more than likely the most badass guy there, and that means something when you have those movie killing machines for allies
Unless you're Zatoichi and has fought people wielding spears or weapons similar. And for some reason, that picture of Leonidas finding a rock like that makes me lol. I can't think of anything like that from the movies. Not that it's not a good plan but it's funny to me. And Zatoichi is an expert at dodging attacks at close quarters like that. And Zatoichi is more speedy than Leonidas who in all likeliness would charge forward with his spear or throw it immediately. He is fighting a blind guy after all.
Corner on a beach? And I don't see him getting knocked down so easily. His hearing is very good and while he might be surprised by the presence of a shield, I don't think he'd be knocked down by it that easily. And it's dark, so Leonidas isn't exactly seeing as well as he can, bonfire or not. And the Persian soldiers never exactly showed any skill in comparison to Zatoichi. The only thing they have over him is, well, armor.
Adios. Nice talking to you.
How can you determine whether a movie has a plot based solely on the action scenes? The acting is actually pretty good and the effects are charming. Roeper and Ebert gave it thumbs up, which is why I rented it.
Zatoichi doesn't typically strike first. Unless he knows the oponent is gonna try stuff. And he's fast. A counterstrike isn't gonna do much if it's dodge.
Impressive. Xerxes actually didn't move his head to dodge it though so the feat is not as impressive. What was impressive was it piercing the throne but whatever.
And Zatoichi took down an entire gang of bad guys for his own amusement. He's killed quite a few people too and he does some pretty impressive moves for an old guy. And the fact that he's blind makes it all the more cool.
Last edited by AuraAngel on Jan 7th, 2011 at 12:24 AM
KMC Community Forums
Jan 6th, 2011 08:03 PM
