Rules:
Kaldor Draigo has all his normal equipment and powers.
Kain has all the powers and equipment used by him in his games, and all on-screen feats are usable.
I cant find any solid basis on Kaldor Draigo. Only that he seems to be in many heated debates on whether his fluff is believable or not. Other than that, hes fought and defeated Bloodthirsters and deamon princes but then, ive seen Titus defeat a Deamon prince with a chainsword and regular power armour.
None of those claims are gaugable tbh, infact, it may be a better gauge for the power of Deamon princes and Bloodthirsters etc, because isnt Kaldor simply another space marine? Hes a grey knight with some great equipment sure, but a grey knight all the same. Are there more gaugable feats, e.g. him throwing a skyscraper, or him taking a Volcano cannon to the chest or something more solid than "he defeated".
I have yet to see anything there that means he can survive attacks from Kain, although he may be able to destroy Kain, but again Space marines are fast, but not teleportation fast, possibly not even Tk resistant or mind control resistant, for example what feats are based on "most powerful psyker".
You'd have something vaguely resembling a point, were it not for the fact that Daemon Princes and Bloodthirsters do in fact have feats. A Bloodthirster can cut a Leman Russ in half, or hamstring a Carnifex with a single attack. Draigo fistfought one in the Warp and killed it.
Grey Knights are the most powerful Space Marines in the Imperium, with Draigo being the strongest.
Space Marines can react to and deflect bolter shells with a power sword. Hell, mere Inquisitors can do the same.
Draigo is immune to the mind games of Lords of Change (One, M'kaechan, who is particularly powerful in such things, tried to sway him, and Draigo proceeded to blow up the Inevitable City, laying him low), and even the Infinite Labyrinth. He's well beyond Kain's ability to control. As for telekinesis, lol, Kain is a pretty poor telekinetic by psyker standards. The Daemon Prince in Eisenhorn can rip a starship from its moorings.
Draigo burned down the Garden of Nurgle with sacred psychic flame. As in, he burned down the entire Garden of Nurgle. He walked into the single greatest concentration of poxes and plagues in the Warp or out of it, and burned it down.
I dont know the context of this "fist fight", it sounds like bad writing or more importantly, unusual context since I cant imagine the winged, typically axe wielding Bloodthirster would use its fists.
"most powerful", what states this? I thought they were simply the more equiped for fighting all Demonic threats specifically.
Again context, and that does not mean anything, and then add on any reflexes could be removed with time stop spells or Kains AoE time powers.
Define "mind games", can you give me a line or quote that states the Lord of change actually attempted to mind control him? "swaying" someone is not a feat of mind control, but suggestion. Maybe but if you cant identify a time where the fluff specifically stated someone could not TK daigo then youve got nothing but Daigo hovering in the air in TK.
How can you gauge that? he burned something that seems pretty vague by your describing it, I know what Nurgle and his plauges are but how hard they are to burn? I think your using nurgles name and the vastness of what he represents to hype this feat. The Bloodthirser and Deamon prince combat sounds more impressive.
Oh, sorry I guess my post was misleading. Draigo was weaponless. The Bloodthirster was not.
You want me to prove that the Grey Knights are the most powerful Space Marines? Really?
Their equipment is far better, first of all, wielding Aegis Power Armour, a few steps above the Aquila Armour that is most common among other Astartes. They are all accomplished psykers, and each one is equipped with a powerful Nemesis Force Weapon.
That doesn't mean that a random Grey Knight can beat any Astartes from another chapter, but they are more powerful, and Draigo is stronger than any other Astartes in the Imperium.
In the old game "Inquisitor" an Inquisitor with a power weapon or force weapon could deflect incoming fire, this is shown in Eisenhorn and Ravenor IIRC, and a Word Bearer in The First Heretic deflects bolter rounds fired at Lorgar by a Custodes.
Nah. Not quoting, don't really care. Oh, the six favored Handmaidens of Slaanesh also attempted to tempt Draigo, who proceeded to kill the shit out of them. Seriously, Draigo fights Daemons, the average Daemonette has powers of mind control. Mind control isn't working.
Lol. No, that's not how it works. Were that the case the average Lord of Change could beat Draigo. It can't. Hell, Aegis Power Armour, the kind every Grey Knight wears, is already at base resistant to psychic powers. Draigo smashed the Inevitable City to rubble with his psychic powers. Kain is much weaker in that regard than Draigo. Oh, Draigo also, in the official art, is shown overpowering M'kaechan, the Lord of Change, with his psychic powah. A Lord of Change can with a flick of the finger devour souls, or warp and twist a skyscraper.
If you believe walking into the domain of a Chaos God and destroying it is not impressive you're an idiot.
So wheres the context though? again without a quote this cant really help you, for all I know this Bloodthirster was for some reason weakened, or did not use its weapons.
So you change your statement, the basic one is more powerful than the basic space marine on a generalisation scale of course.
How do you know hes stronger? So far youve claimed vague things to me, not a feasable feat tbh, for example you claiming monomolecular blades and Carnifex tossing over skyscrapers is gaugable.
Since i have Eisenhorn I should know it, you must be able to get a quote or pagenumber even if your using an E-book...
Again, your saying "they have mind control" but no specification of them using it.
This simply proves that Daigo can fight psykers, Kains not a psyker, their powers over the warp and immateriam work differently against one another, for example some imperium powers are especially effective against demons. Kains simply using kinetic forces, not psyker control.
Or simply not impressed by titles as you are, the Chaos Gods didnt do anything about it I presume? Just left him to it? My guess is your avoiding context for a reason, theres usually a reason for certain powerful entities in WH40k not to be able to, or did not destroy others. For example Cherubael, a former deamon prince in Eisonhorn does not kill Eisenhorn simply because of its personality and even allows Eisenhorn to eventually control it, theres a deep plot around why Cherubael fails to actually destroy Eisenhorn and its not just because Eisenhorn is a more powerful Psyker or anything of the sort.
A good question AG, as i thought, theres some context here. I refuse to believe Daigo has a higher power over the warp or psyker energies than a Chaos God with the same incredulous notion that theres no context behind these events.
BT, welcome to the wonderful world of Mat Ward, where all space marines hail Roboute Guilliman as their spiritual liege, and Necrons and Blood Angels have an epic bromance.
And the C'tan are on the run from the Necrons apparently.
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Last edited by FinalAnswer on Oct 2nd, 2011 at 06:35 PM
You see guys, Draigo is just so super awesome he can do super awesome things and no one can **** with him. In fact, the text directly states that he is utterly immune to the will of the Chaos Gods, and that they can't kill him apparently.
Context? What "context" do you need? He beat the Bloodthirster with no weapons, slaying it. That's it. Assuming that it was weakened or did not use its weapons is just that: An assumption. Stop assuming shit, and just listen to what I say.
How did I "change my statement"? I said Grey Knights are the most powerful of Marines. They are, and those are the reasons why.
If "pushing over a skyscraper" and "monomolecular blades" is not a gaugable feat for you, then you do realise you have to stop using the calculations you had people use for Kain right? And Draigo is the strongest because he's been running around the Warp for hundreds of years ****ing shit up without anything so much as giving him pause.
I actually brought up Eisenhorn mostly because I assumed you'd read it, and this is just what I've heard. When I get that far in Eisenhorn, will try to remember to give you the chapter.
But yes, this also occurs in First Heretic, and is a standard rule in Inquisitor, which inspired Eisenhorn actually.
The Handmaidens of Slaanesh tried to tempt Draigo, Draigo told them "no." Draigo has managed to remain uncorrupted and immune to the effects of the psyche in the Warp for hundreds of years. Kain is doing nothing.
You're right, he's weaker than the average telekinetic psyker. Beyond that, prove Kain can lift a Marine in Terminator armour with his psychic powers, especially one as powerful a psyker as Draigo.
Actually BT, you're just not as smart as me. That is the context. He walked into the Garden of Nurgle and burned it the **** down. Space AIDS? Pft, no. Draigo burned down the Garden of Nurgle with psyflame. That is the context given. What more do you want me to say? I'm not going to invent details that don't exist. Draigo is the product of very bad writing.
Actually, Roboute Guilliman is legitimately one of the most well-respected Primarchs in the Imperium, Ward did not invent that. Only Sanguinius is respected more.
Matt Ward has written most of the codices of fifth edition, he is very much canon.
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Oct 1st, 2011 09:04 PM
