KillerMovies - Movies That Matter!

REGISTER HERE TO JOIN IN! - It's easy and it's free!
Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » Revamping the tierings/power levels in comics...

Revamping the tierings/power levels in comics...
Started by: TheLordofMurder

Forum Jump:
Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread
TheLordofMurder
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Revamping the tierings/power levels in comics...

I once touched upon this topic with Rage and zopzop and I think its something worth discussing in detail...

In comics (both in Marvel and DC) you have characters performing feats that are far beyond what they really should be accomplishing (IMHO of course)...as a result, I fully believe dam near every aspect of both DC and Marvel comics needs to be retconned.

Now assumming that it was up to you, how would you rebalance everything so that there is atleast some logic and consistency in the type of feats various characters are able to perform?

I'll go 1st to give an example of what I am asking for:


Street Level
Low: Can beat up the weak and the Elderly...or a normal person that is physically impared in some way; may be grossly out of shape and slow for example.
Mid: Can beat up common crooks/thugs.
High: Can beat up a very skilled and physically powerful opponent...Brock Lesnar for example.

Enhanced
Low: Can defeat scores of normal humans without much effort.
Mid: Can go crazy and wreck vehicles and small buildings one after another.
High: Can wreck large buildings and devastate city blocks.

Herald
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Deimos (12km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Martian Moon Phobos (22km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Siarnaq (32km diameter).

Trans
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Saturn Moon Dione (1120km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Neptune Moon Triton (2706km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with the Jupiter Moon Io (3636km diameter).

Skyfather
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small planet; Mars (6800km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a medium sized planet; Earth (12756km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a large planet; Neptune (49500km diameter).

Elder God
Low: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a gas giant; Saturn (120536km diameter).
Mid: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with a small star; Red Dwarf (210000km diameter).
High: Can manipulate matter/energy or destroy objects on par with an average star; Our Sun (1390000km diameter).

Cube Being
Low: Can reality warp several solar systems at will.
Mid: Can reality warp dozens of solar systems at will.
High: Can reality warp a small pocket dimension at will.

Abstract/High Powered Cosmic
Low: Can bust a Galaxy.
Mid: Can bust a Galactic Cluster.
High: Can bust a Super Cluster.

God Tier
Low: Can wreck havok on a universal scale at will.
Mid: Can destroy a universe, but not all at once.
High: Can 1 shot an entire universe.


Dam that took alot of time (prays this doesnt get locked; I put alot of effort into this)....

Anyway, again, how would you all rebalance the comic book tiers/power levels if it were up to you?


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 05:23 PM
TheLordofMurder is currently offline Click here to Send TheLordofMurder a Private Message Find more posts by TheLordofMurder Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheLordofMurder
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

Quasi-bump since the original was closed...

wink


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 05:24 PM
TheLordofMurder is currently offline Click here to Send TheLordofMurder a Private Message Find more posts by TheLordofMurder Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

What I have never understood is why most of these tierings are almost always based upon the titles used in Marvel.


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 05:46 PM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheLordofMurder
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheGodKiller
What I have never understood is why most of these tierings are almost always based upon the titles used in Marvel.


Good question...

Maybe its because of the people that do them just happen to like Marvel more?


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 05:53 PM
TheLordofMurder is currently offline Click here to Send TheLordofMurder a Private Message Find more posts by TheLordofMurder Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
Hey Yo!

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

IIRC, they were brought up because they just suited the tiers.

And Metahuman is as much a DC term as it is a Marvel one. More-so, probably.


__________________

Fuck Putin. Help Ukraine

Unicef
UN Refugee Agency
Red Cross

"What does not kill me... is not trying hard enough."

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 05:58 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
zopzop
The Weeknd

Gender: Unspecified
Location: NYC

LoM, going by your criteria, Odin is an abstract being.


__________________

The Birds, Part 2.

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:19 PM
zopzop is currently offline Click here to Send zopzop a Private Message Find more posts by zopzop Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
JakeTheBank
Return of the King

Gender: Male
Location: Doomstadt

quote: (post)
Originally posted by -Pr-
IIRC, they were brought up because they just suited the tiers.

And Metahuman is as much a DC term as it is a Marvel one. More-so, probably.


thumb up

Metahumans are to DC as Mutants are to Marvel, albeit with somewhat less persecution and fear.


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:27 PM
JakeTheBank is currently offline Click here to Send JakeTheBank a Private Message Find more posts by JakeTheBank Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
Hey Yo!

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

quote: (post)
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
thumb up

Metahumans are to DC as Mutants are to Marvel, albeit with somewhat less persecution and fear.


Pretty much, yep.

==

So is this thread designed as a new tier listing?


__________________

Fuck Putin. Help Ukraine

Unicef
UN Refugee Agency
Red Cross

"What does not kill me... is not trying hard enough."

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:28 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
carver9
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

LOM...are we basing this off of recent portrayals or the character entire history?


__________________


On ignore list: Darksaint and Stilt

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:54 PM
carver9 is currently offline Click here to Send carver9 a Private Message Find more posts by carver9 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheGodKiller02
True Killer

Gender: Male
Location: Hunting with wolves

Wassup carter.


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:59 PM
TheGodKiller02 is currently offline Click here to Send TheGodKiller02 a Private Message Find more posts by TheGodKiller02 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
-Pr-
Hey Yo!

Gender: Male
Location: Ireland.

Moderator

Just read the OP in more detail. Honestly my tiers wouldn't be much different to the accepted one here on KMC; I'd just adjust for people who've gotten a push in the last year.


__________________

Fuck Putin. Help Ukraine

Unicef
UN Refugee Agency
Red Cross

"What does not kill me... is not trying hard enough."

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 06:59 PM
-Pr- is currently offline Click here to Send -Pr- a Private Message Find more posts by -Pr- Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
tsilamini
Junior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

I've always found tiers to be somewhat problematic. It seems like characters that have one very specific ability at a trans level often get equated with characters that have a vast array of abilities simply because that one skill. For instance, Man-Thing is far too durable/has too good of regeneration to put him in the Enhanced category, but lacks any other real powers to make him a herald. I think Hulk is also an issue (and, in fact, looking at the divisions above, it is ranked almost entirely in terms of destructive potential, meaning someone like Cyclops would be ranked far too high [potentially high herald the way some members like to cite "Get off my lawn"]).

It is probably way too much effort, but I've always thought breaking it down into a numeric system for different properties. So, like, for strength you might have:

0 - No strength, character is intangible and can't physically affect the world
1 - less than basic human, child, elderly [Power Pack, Franklin Richards]
2 - Basic human [Daredevil]
3 - Enhanced Human [Cap]
4 - something between 2-100 tons
5 - something between 2-100 tons
6 - something between 2-100 tons
7 - something between 2-100 tons
8 - ~100 tonner [Thing, Colossus, etc]
9 - Plot device strength (ie: so strong that the story determines the feat) [Hulk, Superman, Thor, etc]
10 - Strength is an irrelevant factor [Galactus, Eternity, etc]

Again, to break down each character or each potential property would be a massive task, but ultimately I think it is a superior system. Most properties could be evaluated using the same 0-10 rubric (less than human -> too powerful for it to matter), and some "overall" score could be calculated, if you really wanted to. I just think something that is closer to this is better than the more generic levels...

/2 cents


__________________
yes, a million times yes

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 07:03 PM
tsilamini is currently offline Click here to Send tsilamini a Private Message Find more posts by tsilamini Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
yaadaveyaa
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

if u were basing off str wouldnt you just take the strongest physical character there is list him as the top and go down from there? like hulk then the next guy down and so on and so forth?

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 07:08 PM
yaadaveyaa is currently offline Click here to Send yaadaveyaa a Private Message Find more posts by yaadaveyaa Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
tsilamini
Junior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by yaadaveyaa
if u were basing off str wouldnt you just take the strongest physical character there is list him as the top and go down from there? like hulk then the next guy down and so on and so forth?


the problem is, for people like Hulk or Thor, their strength really isn't a defined value, but serves generally as a McGuffin to overcome whatever needs to be "strength-ed" in the story.

Because of this, there is never going to be any type of agreement about who is strongest. Add in the higher echelon of cosmic/abstract characters and it becomes almost impossible. I mean, going by feats, is there anything the Hulk has done that you don't think could be reproduced by Galactus or an abstract level character? Well then, how do you say whether Galactus or some Celestial is physically stronger? What relevance does that measure even have for those characters?


__________________
yes, a million times yes

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 07:12 PM
tsilamini is currently offline Click here to Send tsilamini a Private Message Find more posts by tsilamini Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheLordofMurder
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by zopzop
LoM, going by your criteria, Odin is an abstract being.


You miss my point; I would completely do away with all feats past and present...

I would redo ALL comics with my current criteria...

So Odin would only be capable of performing feats on par with what I listed in the OP (Odin would be a High Skyfather, and as such, would only be capable of busting a Neptune sized object or manipulating an equal amount of matter/energy)...


__________________

Last edited by TheLordofMurder on Apr 5th, 2013 at 08:07 PM

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:02 PM
TheLordofMurder is currently offline Click here to Send TheLordofMurder a Private Message Find more posts by TheLordofMurder Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
TheLordofMurder
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by carver9
LOM...are we basing this off of recent portrayals or the character entire history?


I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak...


__________________

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:04 PM
TheLordofMurder is currently offline Click here to Send TheLordofMurder a Private Message Find more posts by TheLordofMurder Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
zopzop
The Weeknd

Gender: Unspecified
Location: NYC

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
You miss my point; I would completely do away with all feats past and present...

I would redo ALL comics with my current criteria...

So Odin would only be capable of performing feats on par with what I listed in the OP (Odin would be a High Skyfather, and as such, would only be capable of busting a Neptune sized object or manipulating an equal amount of matter/energy)...

Ooooh.

Dude, then I agree with you.

In fact, I would go you one better. No God would be able to affect an area larger than where his worshipers have spread. How does it make sense for Odin (or any other skyfather) to be able to bust a planet if there are 11 or so other Skyfathers around with a larger worshiper base spread out over more of the planet (*cough* Vishnu *cough*) ?

Oh and before you think I'm crazy, there was a time when Marvel saw it my way too :
(please log in to view the image)


__________________

The Birds, Part 2.

Last edited by zopzop on Apr 5th, 2013 at 08:31 PM

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:29 PM
zopzop is currently offline Click here to Send zopzop a Private Message Find more posts by zopzop Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
753
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

op's parameters are far too low and would inflate power level descriptions: metas would be pushing herald and heralds would be pushing skyfather.

the tier thread we already have is adequate for the most part

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:38 PM
753 is currently offline Click here to Send 753 a Private Message Find more posts by 753 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
753
Senior Member

Gender: Unspecified
Location:

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak...
oh so this is just your fantasy of how things should be?

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:40 PM
753 is currently offline Click here to Send 753 a Private Message Find more posts by 753 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
carver9
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: United States

quote: (post)
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I'd do away with all history on all characters and start them over...

The feats they'd manage would go according to what tier they fall in...

Hulk would rate as a Mid to High Herald if it were up to me and would be capable of dusting Deimos to Phobos sized objects at his peak...


Ok...so overall, in order for the characters to be ranked in a tier, they would need the fts replicating what you've described in your title? Also, when does the time period begin? Year 2000? 1990? Where do we start.? Some characters would be bumped down a bit. Wouldnt be as many high to mid Heralds and some of the trans characters would be dropped as well looking at their recent portrayals.


__________________


On ignore list: Darksaint and Stilt

Old Post Apr 5th, 2013 08:40 PM
carver9 is currently offline Click here to Send carver9 a Private Message Find more posts by carver9 Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote Quick Quote
All times are UTC. The time now is 03:28 PM.
Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »   Last Thread   Next Thread

Home » Comic Book Forums » Comic Book 'Versus' Forum » Revamping the tierings/power levels in comics...

Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread
   Post New Thread  Post A Reply

Forum Jump:
Search by user:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON

Text-only version
 

< - KillerMovies.com - Forum Archive - Forum Rules >


© Copyright 2000-2006, KillerMovies.com. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by: vBulletin, copyright ©2000-2006, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.