Here's another thing in the matrix I'm having trouble with. Why is it that the Oracle could see the path of everybody? I mean, I know that all this happened 5 times before, but how is it possible that everybody did the same exact 6 times in a row. How is it that humans, being so imperfect, can through the mathematical perfection of the matrix off, but are so predictible down to every movement. That's what I didn't get or buy. Also how does the Oracle know the path of Trinity if she's what new in the mix of this matrix. All of the other "Ones" didn't fall in love with anybody so how did this one. If I had one grief with the Matrix movies it would be this. Maybe it's just me or maybe I missed something that would explain this all or maybe I'm just adding to much of the real world "physics" to a movie.
__________________ My sword, a thousand battles strong.
NOTE: Everything I say here is MY belief. Please do not get uptight with what I say. Everyone has a right to belive what they do and this is mine.
Picture The actual Matrix as sin. People living their lives as they perceive. They are trapped and there is no way out. They also don't know about the real world. They're kinda like sheep, not living real lives.
Neo comes along. "The One" - Jesus Christ. His purpose is to free the minds from the Matrix. (From sin) By allowing people to believe the truth. Not only does he require them to believe, but he must have the power to free them.
In M2, we hear that there were previous "Ones". Hey, couldn't those be the anti-christs that the bible talks about? It says in the Bible that many will come pretending to be Christ.
When Neo defeats Smith, it seems very similar to when Jesus died on the cross. After Jesus rose again, He wasn't very human anymore. He was able to do extra-ordinary things.
I do agree that there are some parts in the Matrix Trilogy that don't compare to Christianity, but it seems strange that there is a lot that does. For example, Neo at first does not believe he is the one. Jesus always knew He was. Jesus is the son of God. We don't really know of Neo's natality, but I reckon he born a regular man.
Morpheous is a firm believer of Neo. Eventhough he had a lot of doubt near the end, he still trusted Neo. How often do Christians doubt Jesus. I know I do, but He always seems to prevail in the end.
I see Smith as satan. Initially created to serve, but decided to come up with his own plans. Incredibley powerful, but can only be in charge of the Matrix world. (Sin)
If you think Smith is Satan, who do you think the Merovingian is. I always thought him to be Satan. The Smith/Satan thing works to, but I'm asking then who would the Mero. be.
__________________ My sword, a thousand battles strong.
THE MAJOR QUESTION THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED IS: Why if the oracle is from the machine world would she help neo and yet still be on the same side that is attacking Zion. Why is she helping Neo, why? Why do machines keep the matrix if they dont need humans to survive. Why does merv hat the oracle , WHY. ANSWER ME THIS!
She helps Neo because she wants the war to end. She doesn't want humans vs. machines. She's techinically on Neo's side, even though she's a program.
And Lag, the Merovingian represented Hades (He's married to Persephone, gives home to programs about to be deleted, carries keys, etc.). So Smith could possibly be Satan.
__________________ "The MTV Movie Awards are a systemic anomaly inherent to the programming of the Matrix. Although the transport process has altered your consciousness, you irrevocably remain human. Ergo, concordantly, vis-a-vis... You know what? I have no idea what the hell I'm saying. I just thought it would make me sound cool."
-The Architect AKA Larry
In the 2nd Matrix, the Oracle made references to programs such as Smith, which got "outdated" by a new vertion, or just called for deletion. She must have been a program that WAS used by the Matrix, but now is not. Maybe. Also in the 2nd Matrix, the Architect led most of us to believe the oracle was the MOTHER of the matrix, while he was the FATHER. I don't know if this might have anything to do with it, but I gave it a try...
3. Neo was connected to the Matrix through the machines. By Smith taking over Neo, Smith was connected to the machines so they had the power to delete him. That's how I see it.
What is the full significance of Trinity's name? Obviously, there is the generic Christian reference, but I'm wondering if it isn't much more specific.
A number of people have mentioned in other threads that "there is no God" in the world of these movies (although arguments have been made for The Oracle, the machine god, etc.)
I'm wondering if Trinity, or more appropriately the love that she embodies, is not the God that is missing.
This may be crazy, but here is what leads me to this conclusion:
• "The Trinity" IS the conventional Christian concept of God. Of course, as Omega and others have pointed out, this movie is not Christian per se, but does use religious ideas and references from various sources to provide direction to our interpretation
• Love, and its effects on our choices, is one of the strongest if not THE strongest theme in the story.
• There is the perhaps trite but relevant (Christian? Other religions?) phrase "God is Love"
This is what makes me think that perhaps Love (embodied by Trinity) is the "God" initially missing in this story, and the absence of love found in the machine world that is the counterpoint of God. I think that the foothold that Love is getting in the machine world (e.g. Sati) is one of the Revolutions that the title of the movie references.
There is the confusing point that in standard Christian theology, the "Trinity" is "three persons", the Father, Son (Christ) and Holy Spirit. It is hard to see all three of these in Trinity herself, but perhaps they are there. For example, it is obvious that Neo is "the" Christ figure. However, Trinity has some Christ-like features herself, in that she willingly sacrifices herself (by going to what all the characters think is a certain death) for the one she loves.
I look forward to your responses!
p.s. If Trinity is the embodyment of God/Love, then given that most of humanity thinks of God as male, the quote from the first meeting of Neo and Trinity (in Omega's signature) has an additional meaning:
"I thought you were a guy"
"...most guys do"
About religous refrences on the offical matrix website it has photos of placks which are on the many ships and in Zion for the Zion one It says:
Zion Streetlight company and the Mark XIII/XXIV 20 well if you look this verse up on the bible it talks about god shortening days and about the moon not giving of light. THis is such an obvious refrence to the bible.
BioLogos> I think you are right about Trinity. I've been wondering about her,too. I don't know if she is the "God that is missing" from the movies seeing as the Architect would be the God of the Matrix and the God of Zion or the real world is anyone's belief just like in our world, but I do think she could be the symbol of the three embodiments of God. The only thing about that is what else does she do, besides "sacrifice" herself for the ones she love as Christ did. Neo is the "Christ" figure, Architect is the "Father" figure, who is the "Holy Ghost" ? Maybe Deus Ex Machina, Maybe the Oracle.
__________________ My sword, a thousand battles strong.
Even though the movie makes many references, I think the original idea is that God doesnt have power, this might have been cover in the last 9 pages, seeing how I didnt read it. But he says he doesnt beleive in fate, and he wants to prove him wrong.
Even though the Architect is the God figure of this movie there are lines drawn between real and fiction. If you are a religious person then you believe you are given choices and you have to choose the right ones that will lead you to your ultimate goal. In the movies the God figure, the Archiect, is very decieving and tries to make it look like Neo doesn't have a choice and has only one path to choose. So there are lines drawn between the movie and the things in our world being made to reference.
__________________ My sword, a thousand battles strong.
does sereph and sati become smiths? (i only saw half of the movie) and why does the smith who turned the oracle into a smith look creeped out? Also one more question, why does that smith start laughing?
__________________ Smith: Why Mr.Anderson,why.Why,why.Why do you do it? Why, why get up? Why keep fighting.
You believe you fighting for something for more than your survival? Can you tell
me what it is, do you even know? Is it freedom or truth perhaps peace, could it be for love? Illusions Mr.Anderson, Vegeries of Perception. Temperary Constructs of a feeble human intellect trying despretly to justify an existance that is without meaning or purpose and all of them as artificial as the matrix itself, although only human mind could invent something as incepet as love. You must be able to see it Mr.Anderson, you must know it by now, you can't win, it's pointless to keep fighting! Why Mr.Anderson, why,why do you persist! Neo: Because I choose to.
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My sword, a thousand battles strong.
Nov 19th, 2003 08:50 AM
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