shawnio> there are multiple reasons myself (and others) believe that Neo is not dead. I never said, however, that he is a program. i believe that view to be erroneous, but that is irrelevant to our discussion right now. it would be easier for you to do a search and find out why i don't think Neo is dead, but the most important and crucial reason i think he isn't dead is because of his body. at the end of the movie, when neo is taken away by what appears to be a funeral pyre similar to Arthurian legend, his body, together with the float, make what appears to be a Lotus blossom, opening up, in light. In Hindi religion, the lotus blossom signifies the common man (neo) rising up above his position (humanity) to become divine (like the machines). This, coupled with the light, signified in many religions as the divine, shows to me that Neo has not died, but rather transcended his position, become more than he is. His body may be dead, but Neo is still alive, in his body, not as a program.
Interesting, JediHDM, I would have to concur with your point. Yet, wouldn't it be more probable that neo, although dead in body, still has his code running within the matrix...meaning that, although, not living, he lives in his left over code that is the remnant of his and smith's battle giving him a no shape or form yet still the almost infinite power over the matrix as if him and the matrix became one?
__________________ Where is the Horse and the Rider?
Where was the horn that was blowing?
They have passed liked rain on the mountains.
Like Wind in the Meadows.
The days have gone down in the west.
Pella i amoni tenn' lumbule
that is a seeming possibility, except for the fact that his body is transmitting the code. If he were sorta stuck in the matrix again, where his body had died with Smith, but he had ascended/transcended the battle, then his body would still be a blank area in the coding. We can see his body is transmitting code at a very bright light, like the Deus ex Machina. This makes me believe that Neo is still alive in his body, even if his body has gone comatose. It is like the Arthurian legend. Arthur 'dies', and is placed on the funeral pyre to float out to sea, however he will return if his kingdom is ever in danger. Omega tells us the same legend is kept in Denmark, of their king.
Originally, Niobe was with Morpheus, but we think that she left him at about the time Morpheus learned that he would find the One. then she married (i think...do they marry?) Captain Lock. She is with him in Reloaded/Revolutions, but throughout the course of the movies she begins to find that she never stopped loving Morpheus, and that she no longer loves Lock.
Lock is the symbol of logic (rational) seeking mind which does not want to beleive in miralces and prohecies. While Niobe is the symbol of experiential knowledge and morpheus the symbol of wisdom. If we analyse us thought processes, we begin with being in wisdom as a innocent kid and when we grow we go after logic and rational thinking. Then after a certain period in life when we understand that rational thinking cannot gives us everything we start to appreciate again wisdom adn we take side with wisdom. This is the story of Niobe , lock and Morpheus.
This is also the reason why Niobe supports Neo and gives her ship, because it is not because of beleif but because of her experience with being with Neo who can understake successfully a task.
Jedi HDM, as I ahve written in the other thread, the problem with you guys is you take the Matrix theme very literally, which is okay and you see fun in that. But beauty of the movie unfolds when you see the layers of knowledge packed in it. what you are seeing is like a blind man describing an elephant leg and commenting that it is a pillar and touching its trunk commenting it as a rubber tube and its tail as a hairy rope.
If the blind man had a clue he would not get into these conclusions. The directors have given a clue to the whole trilogy be giving the verses of upanishads in Navras as credit song and Asatoma sad gamaya during the fight of Neo and smith. This is the light through which we can see the hidden meanings of matrix. Without we all would be blindly commenting on matrix trilogy and miss its "Inner Beauty".
Morpheus: you want to know, what is the matrix?
*neo nods*
Morpehus: the matrix is a dream world, pulled over your eyes to blind you from the simple and obvious truth
Neo: whats that?
Morpheus: these curtains are HIDEOUS!! i mean, no one should have drapes that clash with their pants. it is digusting to think about. I am gonna have to call Tank and have him redecorate this room. and you...i have to say, i thought people couldn't dress any worse, until right now.
Neo: ...excuse me?
i hae no clue. in M3 they imply that Smith takes over Seraph and seti but if Seraph can stand toe 2 toe with the one. who handles 100's of Smith why can't Seraph do the same.
i got a question from the first movie. so, did neo not techinally become the one until after he died?? cuz the oracle told him maybe in some other life time he could be the one. then he died, then came back as the one. and when morpheus and neo are going to see the oracle, morpheus bows to a blind man on a bench and he bows back. how did he know morpheus was their? and when trinity and neo were in the subway, and trinity said that everything that the oracle had told her had come true, except for this. what is she talking about. and another thing. when mr. smith had neo on the subway tracks, and he was h0lding him around his neck, waiting for the subway, why didnt he just break his neck??
No, Neo did not become the One until after Smith pumped a magazine into his chest and Trinity told him she loved him. The man(program) isn't really blind. She was refering to the statement made by the Oracle that Trinity would fall in love and that man would be the One. Because it would have been poor sport to just break his neck. Neo was down for the count, and Smith doesn't care if he kills a human, there are 6 billion more where that came from.
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Jul 26th, 2004 04:52 AM
