True, but I guess that's what society expected of young couples during those times. Now when I think about it...there were a lot of things politically wrong with those comics....for instance, it was always Girl vs Girl(Wanda vs Jean) and Boy vs Boy. Thunderbirds death also seems iffy.
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Last edited by ExodusCloak on Jul 31st, 2006 at 07:43 AM
Yeah, it's really funny that you seem to have trouble reading.
Let's see what I've written about the whole Jean/Logan thing:
Now let's take a look at what Cyke thinks about the situation:
Did you not see me and Cyke debating on the severity of Jean's actions several posts back?
Now if you want to fight with somebody about justifying Jean's actions with Logan, fight with Cyke.
You hope I got that huh? Well Mr. Tough Guy, I think that all factors should be examined in a debate concerning a situation involving a relationship between a man and a woman. That includes the thoughts and beliefs of the debaters. I wouldn't bother arguing about racial or religious tolerance with somebody wearing a swastika, and I'm not going to bother arguing about a woman's role in a relationship or any other situation with somebody who not only identifies themselves with, but takes pride in being associated with an industry that is demeaning to women. Especially when that someone has made his stance known through an all encompassing statement like "...the way a wife should console a sulking husband...". All the expectations I have put on Scott concerning his relationships I have also imposed on myself in my marriage. On the other hand, I have no expectations of my wife because I respect her right to free will. Our marriage succeeds because she places high expectations on herself and values what her and I have together, as do I. For example; the fact that she makes dinner almost every night is nice and all, but I never come home expecting food to be on the table waiting for me. If it's not, then I take her out for dinner. In turn, she doesn't expect me to take her out every night either. The same logic of placing the responsibility on oneself and contributing equally applies to many areas involving the relationship. Any actions a woman makes should be of her own free will, not because not because some rat bastard man told her that's how things are going to be. I hope YOU got that...
I would also like to point out before I get loads of horribly misspelled hate mail for bagging on the wrestling industry that I don't have a problem with the wrestlers. Most are superb athletes and nice people in real life and a select few even have my utmost respect. Perry Saturn in particular is a hero in every sense of the word. My problem is that wrestlers publicly humiliate themselves and put their bodies through extreme pain simply because people will pay to watch it. I have already mentioned the way women are objectified and the lessons it teaches kids who don't understand that it's all entertainment. It bothers me to see fans give money to the people exploiting the men and women of the wrestling industry. Sure, they're all consenting adults, but so are all the hookers who work in Vegas. It doesn't make the way either of them earn their money any less demeaning.
Now, where was I...
Madelyne- He was looking for a replacement for Jean. She had the right look and they got along. I don't think she would have been cool with the fact that Scott was only with her because she made a pretty good Jean though. Do you?
Psylocke- Hardly matters since she wasn't enough to lure Scott away from Jean., but you can't deny the fact that Scott was VERY attracted to her. And what do you mean "Cyke & Jean was not yet married..."? Commitment and responsibility go LOT deeper than a ring and a promise. Scott and Jean's relationship didn't start the day they were married.
Emma- NO reservations? You have to be kidding me. Which one did he choose when they were tearing out each other's throats?
Once again, READ what is being written. You said "* had Cyke died instead of Jean, the "notorious" affair would Jean and Logan's... " In your little example, Scott is dead. Jean cannot cheat on a dead guy because he's DEAD. Jean and Logan could go at it like rabbits since Scott would be out of the picture. When Jean was dead, Scott wasn't cheating on her with Maddie. Later on however, Scott was cheating on Jean with Emma. So how does the term "no affair" not apply to that situation?
As for the crap statement "Cyke did not replaced Jean with a Jean look-a-like either... ", let's get the opinion of one of the biggest Cyclops fans I know:
If you find yourself blindly protecting Cyclops even more than a fan as big as PR1983, you probably have a problem.
Here, I'll give you a real life example of my train of thought here:
Mike Tyson has feared no man he has boxed against and scared everybody he was in prison with. Coward? Nope.
Mike Tyson used to beat his wife. Coward? You're damn right he is.
Granted, this was an extreme example, but I was using it to clearly illustrate the fact that there are times when Scott is the furtherest thing from a coward, and times when he took the coward's way out when confronted with problems he couldn't deal with.
I have problems with any man who would leave his family under the conditions Scott did. My problem is what has been done, not who did it.
So I'm getting the feeling you're not willing to compromise on this so we don't have to bother with debating about this as well? Honestly, I didn't think you would, but I figured I should at least try...
Let's see what you would be reading if you were actually reading what I have been writing:
Looks like once again we're in agreement. What point are you trying to prove again? Oh yeah, you hate Wolverine. Got it. Loud and clear. Happy now?
Well, I'm sure everybody is getting tired of seeing us bicker back and fourth. So unless one of us brings up some new relevant point, I say we just bow and go our separate ways for now. Cyke is right, repeating the same thing over and over gets old...
Grant Morrison made him f*ck Emma because he rightly thought they'd make an infinitely more interesting couple than Scott and Jean, because Jean has always and will always be incredibly boring no matter how many power ups they give her.
Yes, so what? It's not anyone's fault to be attracted to someone else, you can't control it. But, when Betsy kissed him, Scott said "It's not gonna happen", and after that i believe they were never alone together again. Of course, the ideal would be to discuss it all with Jean, open about what he truly feels, etc, but at least he stayed away from the temptation. His wife, on the other hand, while she bever slept with Logan, NEVER was anywhere near that strong, never expressed clearly that she would have nothing with him, and was always together with a man whom she knows she's attracted to, knows that is in love with her and wants to do something about it. And even tried to kissed him before Scott went to Emma, and if it wasn't for him saying no, would be in bed with him long before Cyke and Emma.
While i agree that Jean is boring and Cyke and Emma are great, he did not just made them f*ck, instead showed the collapse of a relationship among two people who deeply loved each other, but, for different reasons, where not good for each other anymore.
And people even discuss Cyclops and Wolverine fighting? I mean, it already happened in the comics, Cyke won easily, even in the Ultimate, when he's just a kid and Logan is by far strongest than he is the 616. Logan is overrated, and he would be fighting a guy who took down an entire X-men team (including Wolverine, Colossus and Storm), destroyed the Master Mold and nearly killed Apocalypse, and all that on his own.
* the funny thing is, you lack specifics... one minute you're blabbering about the Scott-Madelyne issue, next - the Scott-Emma... i mean, you really messed things up... while if we can concentrate first on the Scott-Jean relationship, things would be much better and easier to resolve...
* now, here is an example of a very hypocritical statement made a person who claims his "problem is what has been done, not who did it"...
* leaving wife and child is really not good... but the point is, Cyke never really got any reservations for Madelyne and Nathan back then which he should have...
* read mr.omega-level's post...
* you have trouble understanding the word "reservations"? it's like you already have someone but got hots for another... for example: Jean already got Scott but have reservations for Logan...
* sheesh... would it be so grave that Cyke continued his relationship with Emma when Jean herself pushed him into it?
* i was referring to Emma, mr.know-it-all...
* if you look at Scott's profile, that is really his attitude... and thanks to Emma (and not his own wife Jean), he came out of his shell, able to deal problems very manly now... wouldn't that make someone proud? Emma deserves a standing ovation...
* ooohh! a personal vendetta eh?
* then quit talking about my sig...
* read again, mr.omega-level's post...
* well, kinda...
* sure, not a problem... as i was saying, my point was:
- in the Scott-Madelyne relationship, leaving the wife and a child is a no-no...
- in the Scott-Jean marriage, both are victims and offenders but IMO, a physical kiss is more grave than a psychic affair...
- in Scott-Psylocke, Cyke turned down Psylocke, you can clap your hands to Cyke now...
- in Scott-Emma, a healthy relationship which makes Cyke a better man from before, a wrong start but eventually, it was Jean herself who pushed Scott to Emma...
- and finally, Jean-Logan, oh man... i feel sick, Jean got some weird taste of men having hots on Logan...
The whole point is that peejayd said Scott had no "reservations" for Betsy. This was a new, strange way of using the word "reservations" that I (nor apparently the people at www.websters-online-dictionary.org) had never heard of. I had correctly guessed it meant having to "hots" for someone as peejayed was nice enough to confirm for me. So... Scott had the "hots" for Betsy. He never acted on any of his impulses. Good for him. He did have them though. I would also say he had "reservations" for Emma, since he was mentally sticking it to her. Usually that takes at least some attraction. Maybe you can explain that to peejayed, since he seems to value your opinions and considers them facts.
I was using your quotes to prove a point to peejayd. He was accusing me of justifying Jean's actions, something I wasn't doing but you were. I was letting him know if he had a problem with someone justifying Jean's actions to take it up with you. I'm not suprised you're confused though. Cyclops fans get confused pretty easy...
Yeah, sorry about that Cyke. The "blindly" part of that was aimed at peejayd. You have always intelligently and calmly posed your facts and opinions to me, even when I was barking at you. I have nothing but respect for you. On the other hand... isn't every fan of Cyclops either a little blind or stupid?...
BURN!
No it doesn't, you mean-hearted person. Sabretooth is a badass and you should only hope that some day you live up to his... uh.. badassedness!
YEAH!
HIS BADASSEDNESS!!!
Seriously though, I'd be careful if I were you. I don't want to say who, but someone patrols this thread who looks down on people who bag on other people's sigs. Thrust me, I know. They might see that and threaten to "put the smackdown on you" or something...
You don't SEE how because you must be part of the half that's a little blind. That's a good thing. I'm not naming names or anything, but there are some of the stupid half who post here as well...
KMC Community Forums
How often do highschool sweethearts marry and actually stay together anyway... methinks not very often.
Jul 31st, 2006 07:33 AM
I can't believe it worked out that way. They both were such weaklings...Jean couldn't even telekinetically lift a ball in training.
