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Tom Bombadil [merged]
Started by: nephalim27

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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

We can handle I believe Kit, w/o sauron or Exa we can do it. I believe in us!


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 03:14 AM
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Kitoky
Starting Anew

Gender: Female
Location: Imladris

*takes out and waves the flag of the Witch King*


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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.

Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 03:19 AM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

We have a flag?


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 03:25 AM
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orlandoOYEA
Since When?

Gender: Female
Location: Maryland

No no no nothing is silly. Just trying to point something out. Although i sometimes post what. He he he.


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 12:04 PM
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Exabyte
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: There and back again

quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
* Tom is the Witch King (thought up and inspired by the wonderful sauron, and supported by all members of the Nazgul, Moty, Witchy, and Tom club. And a theory that I totally support also)


This is not thought up stick out tongue it's a very intelligent theory (or proof big grin ) and part of one of the best threads here.
And, yes, I absolutely do support this theory, and that's why I love Tommy.

In book, I must admit I didnt really like him the first time I read it. He was kinda strange, didnt really suit Middle-earth and the whole athmospere in the books. But the more often I read it, the more I start to like him. He's a wonderful character because he is simply special.
And he is something about which I cant think of any similar character in any other story.
He's himself and that's his secret, his riddle. He just IS, like I think Goldberry says. And that's what makes him be one of the persons most talked about and discussed.


Long live Witchy, the Tommy, the Moth! (and the Penguin)


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 12:46 PM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

quote:
posted by sauronAt last, the mystery of Tom Bombadil's identity has been solved.
Ready?

Tom Bombadil and the Witch-king of Angmar are the same person.

1. We never hear of Tom at all during the whole of the First Age. The Nine Rings aren't forged until the Second Age. QED.

2. You never see the two of them together.

3. In the first part of Fellowship of the Ring, the Nazgul are sent to the Shire to look for the wandering Baggins. Interestingly, Tom says to Frodo at the dinner-table: "...I was waiting for you. We heard news of you, and learned that you were wandering... But Tom had an errand there, that he dared not hinder" (Fellowship p.137 hardback, emphasis mine: note the fear Tom has of his master, Sauron!).

4. In Tom's questioning of the Hobbits, JRRT notes that "there was a glint in his eyes when he heard of the Riders." (Fellowship p. 144) I think he was concerned that his double-life might have been noticed. Interestingly, Tom immediately changes the subject of conversation!
Furthermore, the One Ring had no effect on Tom - which seems consistent with Tolkien's observations about how the Nazgul would have handled the same priceless object (Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, #246): "They were... in no way deceived as to the real lordship of the Ring."

5. It's also interesting to note that Tom could see Frodo clearly while Frodo was wearing the Ring (Fellowship p. 144 hardback) - just as the Witch-king could see Frodo clearly while he was wearing the Ring at Weathertop! (Fellowship p. 208 hardback)


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Last edited by Aurora on Jan 9th, 2004 at 01:52 PM

Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 01:35 PM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

quote:
6. Perhaps most damning, however, is the incident with the Barrow-wights (Fellowship pp. 151-155), where Tom - with nothing more than a few simple words (p. 154) - commands the Barrow-wight to leave. And it does, without argument. Why would the Wight be so completely under Tom's control? Because in his alternate guise as the Witch-king of Angmar, Tom ordered the Wight to inhabit the barrow in the first place! Turning to Return of the King, Appendix A, p. 321, "evil spirits out of Angmar... entered into the deserted mounds and dwelt there." Obviously the Witch-king was reponsible for sending the wights there; just as obviously, the Witch-king (disguised as Tom) would be capable of ordering them to leave!
(This is related to another passage, which has since been brought to my attention. On Fellowship page 158 hardback, Tom is guiding the Hobbits back towards the Road when he gazes towards the borders of Cardolan. "Tom said that it had once been the boundary of a kingdom, but a very long time ago. He seemed to remember something sad about it, and would not say much." Since Tom, as the Witch-king, was the one who destroyed the kingdom of Cardolan, it's little wonder that he wouldn't say much about his involvement. Perhaps his remembering "something sad" reveals some remorse at being the instrument of Cardolan's destruction...?)

...Yep: I think we have an airtight case here.

...It's worth noting that, after the Witch-king was dead, Gandalf said he was "going to have a long talk with Bombadil" (Return of the King, p. 275). Curiously, he never tells anyone about the meeting later... and he's right there at the Grey Havens at the end of the book, undelayed it seems by long conversation. I think we can therefore theorize that Gandalf made it to the Old Forest, but that Tom (once the so-called "Witch-king" had died) was nowhere to be found!


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 01:46 PM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

quote:
...Of course, all this brings up the curiosity of motive. What would make the Witch-King of Angmar sport such a double identity? I suppose that the Witch-king, once of proud Numenorean ancestry, felt trapped by the guise of evil which Sauron had tricked him into, and in the fullness of time forged this alternate identity for himself so that he could occasionally feel happy, helpful, noble, and more at one with himself and his lineage. The situation is perhaps analagous to a crossdresser who, feeling trapped in a man's body, would occasionally assume the identity of a woman. It therefore makes sense that the Witch-king's other identity would be so peculiarly enigmatic, and perhaps sheds light on JRRT's observation in Letters #144: "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)."

...Who else would be aware of Tom's double-life, I wonder? Since Tom repeatedly claims to have been around "before the river and the trees", and indeed even claims to be older than the Ents (Fellowship p. 142), surely the eldest of the Elves would know he was lying. Elrond plays along with Tom in public, being kind enough not to reveal his secret, but also seems to know that Tom and the Witch-king are one and the same; hence his refusal to give the Ring to Tom for safekeeping (Fellowship p. 278-9): "Power to defy the Enemy is not in him."


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 01:48 PM
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Smodden
Keyblade Chosen

Gender: Male
Location: The Darkness

well now i understand a little.


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 07:26 PM
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The Inkeeper
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: With You

thats the eigth time ive had too see that big grin


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 07:35 PM
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Smodden
Keyblade Chosen

Gender: Male
Location: The Darkness

blink


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 09:10 PM
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The Inkeeper
Senior Member

Gender: Male
Location: With You

i wrote that in the first bombadil thread right? and since then its been in every other to, thread


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Im Back happy

Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 09:28 PM
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Kitoky
Starting Anew

Gender: Female
Location: Imladris

Lord Andres can't recognized a joke even if one was about him. -.-


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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.

Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 09:34 PM
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Smodden
Keyblade Chosen

Gender: Male
Location: The Darkness

joke? hes not realy the witch king?

FOOLS!


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 10:06 PM
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Kitoky
Starting Anew

Gender: Female
Location: Imladris

Well we don't really know if he's the Witch King or not, we just like to believe he's the Witch King!

GO BOMBADIL AND HIS PIMPIN' MACE!


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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.

Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 10:07 PM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

Go Tommy, Witchy, and Mothy


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 11:05 PM
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Aurora
Princess

Gender: Female
Location: Dancing

smilesmilesmile GO TOMMY, MOTHY, AND WITCHYsmilesmilesmile


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Old Post Jan 9th, 2004 11:06 PM
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Exabyte
Senior Member

Gender: Female
Location: There and back again

Erm - yes.

But what about poor, poor Goldberry? We cant just let her stay at home alone just with some barrowies no no


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2004 09:00 AM
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cheney
Exa's LOTR Disciple

Gender: Male
Location: Australia

hey i was just wondering gandalf said that treebeard was the oldest living thing in all of middle earth... yet tom claims he was there before the mountains and the stars and yadda yadda... what the whos lying here


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Old Post Jan 10th, 2004 09:57 AM
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cheney
Exa's LOTR Disciple

Gender: Male
Location: Australia

also what race is goldberry she seems ageless at one with nature and beautiful so she could be an elf but ... i think tom(the little riddle that he is) would ahve to have someone more interesting as a partner im looking at u exa cos from what i can tell ur the guy i should be asking... no offence kit or sauron or ne other wise tolkien scholars that ive left out


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The Pain of War Cannot exceed the Woe of Aftermath, The Drums will shake the Castle walls, the Ringwraiths riding black. Ride on! Sing as you raise your right arm. Shoot straighter then before!

-An Excerpt from the song; The Battle of Evermore, Led Zeppelin

Old Post Jan 10th, 2004 10:03 AM
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