good question... I think Bombadil is older than treebeard, especially treebeard as an ent; he was one of the first trees taught to speak by the elves (that's how they became real ents) but as bombadil says that he already was there before stars and whatever, he has to be the older one (if he does not lie, of course; it would solve many (though by far not all) riddles if Bombadil would just be some crazy guy thinking he was the best
And about Goldberry... hm... She might be something similar to a Maia because she says this stuff like that she was the daughter of this riverwoman and so on.
In one of the Letters, Tolkien says that she "represents the seasonal changes of the lands."
I assume that she was a maia of Ulmo (or of one of Ulmo's female Maiar); daughter doesn't have to mean that she is the real daughter, this can also be interpreted as a daughter-in-mind. Maybe she was also someone who drowned in the Withywindle and was sent back by Ulmo or something...
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Last edited by Exabyte on Jan 10th, 2004 at 10:16 AM
thanks man but that yet again raises the question as to why gandalf said that treebeard was the oldest being on middle earth. does this simply mean that the elves that "awakened" him have been killed or have gone over the sea? btw thanks exa
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I guess the Ents were always there they just haven't been awakened and Treebeard was the outest out of all of them.
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Did he really say "oldest being" or "one of the oldest"? Or perhaps "one of the oldest who remember..."? Or one of the oldest who really come from middle-earth?
No, that can't be.
In the very beginning, there were 144 elves; and among them Nurwe and Morwe, Finwe and Ingwe, Elwe and Olwe and Elmo; and of these, at least Ingwe and Olwe are still alive, but in Valinor, where the others also dwell; the oldest ELVES still in Middle-earth were Galadriel, Celeborn, Elrond, Glorfindel and perhaps some others that had already lived in Beleriand, though for example Glorfindel already had died.
If we assume that Tommy was a Maia, it could be that Gandalf meant Treebeard was the oldest creature still living who really CAME from Middle-earth; unlike the Maiar.
If he does mean all creatures, his sentence would be a lie nevertheless; he himself is older than the world, as are also Sauron, Saruman and the Balrog.
__________________ Life is complex: it has both real and imaginary components.
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
firstly about bombadil and the witch king its not him, gandalf goes to talk to him at the end of rotk book and the witch king died and the witch king was a man bombadil isnt really but he still kicks ass
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
Well look at Galadriel and she's got a cool ring and a wicked mirror.
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
True, but she's the oldest in Middle-Earth right now.
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
Y'know I KNEW I should've added that comment that I was debating whether to say, but now I know I should next time. *grumbles*
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
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Ah yes...Cirdan is very old but Galadriel is the only elf that remembers Valinor.
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I'm starting over, do not mistake me for my brother - he has left. Eezy has convinced me to come back, give him some credit.
Yes very very sad But he DID get to leave on the last boat didn't he?
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Thank you so much Eezy!!
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good question... I think Bombadil is older than treebeard, especially treebeard as an ent; he was one of the first trees taught to speak by the elves (that's how they became real ents) but as bombadil says that he already was there before stars and whatever, he has to be the older one (if he does not lie, of course; it would solve many (though by far not all) riddles if Bombadil would just be some crazy guy thinking he was the best 
Jan 10th, 2004 10:05 AM
