The last one was a diversion in the pain fight. Plus he actually destroyed a path with one to. it also doesn't hurt being able to see the attack from different angles either in Pain's case.
Pain dodged the first Rasenshuriken easily. It wasn't the speed that got the Human Path but the fact that it could expand. And just because it was a diversion in the last fight doesn't invalidate the dodging.
Taijutusu also seems almost completely speed dependent with the exception of Boobsnade and Hidan. I believe I had this argument with Q99.
I still contend, mathematically, that Naruto in Sage Mode has the fastest quantifiable speed feat. I am not saying that Sage Mode is the fastest type of mode for Naruto, only that it is the fastest we can mostly measure.
Also, Naruto, in base-from, the actual fastest move made was when Naruto was in base-mode and the seconds were counting down. Other than using how long it takes objects to fall to the ground to base speed feats upon (like I did with Lee's leg falling down to see how fast Gai had to be to stop Gaara's sand), there is no way to measure speed without time.
Don't forget Jirobo (2 tai over speed), Sarutobi (2 points, tai over speed), and Ebisu (1.5 tai over speed). Haku in the other direction too (3 points, speed over tai). Kiba's speed outpaces his taijutsu as well (1.5 speed over tai), and Shino (1.5 speed over tai).
Lots of ninja in the 4.5 speed range are relatively slackers in taijutsu with 3.5, including Deidara, Orochimaru, and Sasuke, though that's a smaller gap. Completely even people are fairly rare.
He is like Tsunade: specializes in extreme strength but he is also fat. He does not do, at all, to make my point, as he is an extreme example of a strength specialist. I do not count this person when considering my point. Nor would I count any fat/super strong character.
Old man. "Me Ache is Achin'" Kage is the exception to the old man syndrome in Naruto. However, we may see stats on him: he could be a 2 in speed and a 1 in taijutsu. Just don't know.
Within an acceptable range. Two is about the limit I am saying is outside "close".
A young man and a specialist. Likely, those stats would have evened out as he got older. I do not count the young when talking about "Tai and Speed" being even. They are not developed ninja, yet. Why do you think I mentioned Tsunade and Hiden instead of Jirobo and Haku?
Actually, that is what I would consider as being part of my point. Speed and Taijutsu seem to be closely related with the exception of only a very select few.
Here are the ones that actually make my point:
Neji - Speed and Tai are the same for him.
Lee - Speed and tai are within .5.
Gai - Speed and Tai are the same.
Kakashi - Speed and Tai are the same.
Asume - Speed and Tai are the same.
Tenten - Speed and Tai are the same.
Sakura - Speed and Tai are the same.
Choji - Speed and tai are within 1 (likely more even, now, if we had a more current databook)
Ino - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Shikamaru - Speed and tai are within .5.
Jiraiya - Speed and Tai are the same.
Itachi - Speed and Tai are within .5
Sasuke - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Kurenai - Speed and Tai are the same.
Hinata - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Naruto - Speed and Tai are the same (likely, both are 5s, now).
Temari - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Hizashi - Speed and Tai are the same.
Kabuto - Speed and Tai are the same.
Kisame - Speed and tai are within .5.
Zabuza - Speed and Tai are within .5.
Deidara - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Kakuzu - Speed and Tai are the same.
Sasori - Speed and Tai are within .5.
Hidan - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Kidomaru - Speed and Tai are within .5.
Tayuya - Speed and Tai are within 1.
Sakon - Speed and Tai are the same.
Ukon - Speed and Tai are the same.
Kimimaro - Speed and Tai are within .5.
Likely to have the same stats but are unranked:
A - Speed and Tai are both 5.
B - Speed and Tai are both 5.
C - Speed and Tai are probably both around 4 to 4.5.
Darui - Speed and Tai are probably both around 3.5-4.5.
Ginkaku - Speed and Tai are both 5 (I am assuming kyubi mode).
Kinkaku - Speed and Tai are both 5 (I am assuming kyubi mode).
Sandaime Raikage - Speed and Tai are both 5.
Minato - Speed and Tai are both 5.
Madara - Speed and Tai are probably both 4-5.
Now, if you want, list all the nin that have greater than a 1.5 difference between Speed an Tai. 1.5 falls between the two so I consider it not making either of our points. 2 would make your point and a 0-1 point difference makes mine.
So, if you could, list all of those characters.
Then compare that list with mine. Let me know if there is a correlation.
If your list ends up extremely short, go ahead and include the 1.5s.
After that is done, I could do a statistical analysis and create a correlation for us (real statistics, not the jargon dropping that internet idiots like to use). This would mean I would create correlations between other compared two stats (randomized to ensure that all stats do not show the same correlations).
Just an educated guess, but I would say the correlation coefficient is .9-.97. That's a very strong correlation.
Let me know. I have a TI-83 plus right here at my desk.
Keep in mind, the range is in total 5, anyone high level will normally have at least a 3 in everything, and only specialists/total experts in a field have 5s.
Tsunade's only a 1.5 off between her speed and taijutsu (and thus close) because even a speed of 3.5 can only be outdone by 1.5 max. Hidan's only 1 off.
Hm, which is a pretty good point- anyone S-class can only be, at most, 1.5 behind anyone... so if one puts a difference of 2 as the normal blitzing range, then that works out pretty well...
There is a correlation, but I'd argue there's a pretty similar correlation with the other physical stats- of all the characters in all the databooks with a difference of at least 2 between Taijutsu and Stamina, for example, there's only 3 who aren't very old or sick. And of those three, one is Gaara (the other two are rookie Naruto and Kurenai).
And the 'high skill even with low speed' route does seem to be one multiple characters go down, and with solid effectiveness.
How you guys place value in outdated and inane stats is beyond me.
Anyway, is it only I who has the feeling the Final Advent Susano'o is literally Madara? After all, Madara did summon meteors.
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Hahaha...I see what you did there. Wonder if Hashirama had a Buster Sword along at the VoTE.
So...would this latest chapter make Mei the weakest Kage? Sure her Lava and Boil release are deadly but mei herself doesn't really any defensive skills or impressive speed whatsoever. In fact Sasuke would've probably killed her had he fought her first.
At most I can see Tsunade and Mei as equals thanks to this latest chapter and the Madara chapter preceeding it.
People still use graphing calculators? I remember using one in high school, sadly we never really needed them, and we're not allowed to use them in university.
Mei's speed isn't bad either, though. Mei had no problem intercepting Black Zetsu.
On defense, she has hiding in mist, acid fog or lava-ing the ground around her to keep foes from getting close, and she should have defensive earth jutsu. Plus active 'hit jutsu with a jutsu' stuff.
No passive/automatic stuff like armor or regen or uber durability, but more defense than Kakashi does.
Has Mei actually used an earth justu though? She also had trouble taking down said Black Zetsu..that for some reason her boy-toy was able to hande w/o any problems.
Yeah but that's more of using an offensive attack defensively than actual defense. Not bad but the rest of the Kage have better alternatives.
Well that's not saying a whole lot when compared to a lot of other solid S nin.
Is the even a significant difference in speed between shinobi? Because it's underplayed in battles. Minato's battle against the masked man is a great example, the speed difference seemed very slim, and it's even more underplayed with the battle against Madara. A should be so much faster than the rest of the crew, yet he's the one being saved.
Gaara versus Lee is the only battle where I felt that there was an actual difference in speed.
There are speed differences, but they can mostly be lumped into a few speed bands.
Minato's at the top band plus he has teleportation. The masked guy is in the top band too.
And if there's a difference of just one speed band, it has an effect but it's not overwhelming.
Uh, keep in mind that Black Zetsu was also messing around with one of Naruto's Kyuubi mode clones just fine. He was using a hit-and-run strategy and was taken down by team effort.
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Jun 2nd, 2012 06:43 PM
