Like what, being owned by everyone. Venoms rep is as a spiderman villian. Apoc is supposed to be a team buster but it doesn't really require a team to take him out. Several people give Apocalypse the benefit of the doubt despite the fact that his plans completely fall apart and seem really have no basic standing. And as far as a villian goes,Venom has'nt been a villian for years. Hes more of an antihero. The only time he appears to be a villian is when a writer (with no re-collection of his history) makes him one for the sake of a story. Venom has had a truce with Spiderman for years but then out of the blue some writer makes a story where he hates him again.
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Last edited by HueyFreeman on Dec 12th, 2007 at 05:59 AM
By "record as a villain" I'm talking about what the characters have done... you know... what all other villains do; causing destruction, hatching evil schemes and such?
In his history, Apocalypse has always been swatting away the X-Men...
Read above post, hes not really a villain. He makes it a point not to touch those he considers innocent. Even when he first appeared, he wasn't killing innocents but when necessary he felt remorse. Because of a warped sense of righteousness he believed Spider man to be guilty. Even that changed later on but apparently forgotten about 3-4 years ago which kind of stopped me from liking the character direction(especially when the Symbiote bonded to Gargan) .His career is not going to be stooped in destruction since most of it was based on protection (Venom "Lethal Protector" anyone). Sagas like
Separation Anxiety
Maximum Carnage
Planet of the Symbiots
Lethal Protector
Unleased
all portray him in a Punisherish light.
Apocalypse has a terrible carreer as a villian with nothing else. All of his plans have fallen apart and his best win( Age of Apocalypse) ended in him getting blown open. Even in House of M he was second to Magneto(the same Apocalypse who supposedly believes the weak die and the strong survive). Ask any non comic book reader and they will tell you that Apocalypse is the X-mens greatest villian or Magneto despite the fact that he really isn't that threatening or that intellgent compared to the other big brains.
So, why are fans considering Venom the greatest Spider-Man villain?
His survival of the fittest schemes are complicated. Ultimately, it comes down to which are strong and who are weak, and that's all that matters for Apocalypse. During the X-Factor days, even when seemingly defeated, Apocalypse's plans mean that even a loss is a victory.
The power levels in AoA were wacky.
Apocalypse's power was stated to be rivaled by Nate Grey...
So, depowered Magneto >>>> Apocalypse and Nate Grey?
House of M was pretty Magneto centered...
Also, in the Guardians of the Galaxy timeline, Apocalypse battled Magneto, and they killed each other.
....
Wait... why are we talking about alternative universes that are not canon nor have any meaning to 616 Apocalypse whatsover?
Marvel comics have really established Apocalypse has a big threat.
In the '90's, we were introduced to the concept that there is a dark future where Apocalypse has in fact overthrown the world, and Cable was sent to prevent this from happening.How does this not put him on threatening levels? Apocalypse's minions alone like Moses Magnum and the Harbinger have given the Avengers serious trouble.
Now....
Yes, Apocalypse has lost.
So?
What bad guy hasn't? That's their ultimate fate.
Problem with Apocalypse is, if his crazy survival of the fittest plans WOULD succeed, the planet is completely f*cked.
Most like Venom because he is one of the few Spiderman villians that Spiderman was completely outmatched by. Spidermans edge in speed can't help, Venoms more durable, Stronger, he has camoflauge abilities, and hes not really dumb like other villians(Rhino). Most of his first appearaces Spiderman has won by the skin of his teeth and even then it was completely plot driven. His relationship with Venom is like the Predator vs Arnold one in the movie Predator. Arnold has virtually no chance but we all know he will pull a heros victory.
GG, Kraven, Hobgoblin, Shocker, Ock, Wisp, Chameleon, and Electro are all villians who only are a threat because of Pete holding back. With Venom giving it his all barely gains him survival. At least this was how he was portrayed in his first appearances.
For a villian Apoc is not threatening. Dont get me wring, I loved Xmen tas and that version of him, but his comic book counterpart doesn't even compare. Nothing he has done has ever left a lasting effect on the X-men. His greatest victory is AOA which more or less never happened. Sinister has done more yet hes recognized as an X-men B villian.
Having been merged with Apocalypse, Cyclops did not emerge from the separation unscathed. Now cold, brooding and unfeeling toward his own wife, Cyclops' distance began to put a serious strain on their marriage. Even the psychic rapport that the two had shared for years, no longer worked as it once did.
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Dec 12th, 2007 04:07 AM
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