Well see, we dont accept because the lack of truth not in spite of it.
Religion doesn't make much sense to a lot of people out there... I don't think that makes them bad people. I don't believe that good people should be threatened with this idea of eternal burning and hell and all of that kind of nonsense because they don't conform to your idea of what religion is and what worship means to you.
How do you know that someone who doesn't beleive in Jesus that is out helping people, and donating to charity, and showing kindness in their everyday life isn't acceptable worship to god?
You don't. You have beleifs that you believe came from god, and that is good for you. Your calling is to belive in God and worship through the ways he gave your people. How do you know that Ghandi's work was not a calling from god? He may not have been a Christian, but if there is heaven I think that good people get in regardless. There are a lot of people who are not called to be Christians out there, but many of these people still care for others and live their lives in a way that I think God would find acceptable.
And while you may not agree with me, you can't prove or disprove this. YOu can only really agree or disagree with me here. Just like I can't prove or disprove your religion. I may have evidence and facts and beliefs on why your religion is not true, but I can't really prove to you anything. That evidence can be used to prove to other people why I do not beleive, but it doesnt answer if your beleifs are true or not. I can only really agree or disagree with them... and well I disagree.
Much of that imagery of hell and such was created in the middle ages in Europe. In a lot of people's minds it is been retroactively combined with earlier writings.
1. Not burning. Segration from God. If you don't want to believe in him, you get an afterlife to do so. God creates the earth, us, gives us a gift of life that no science can currently give. If you ignore him, you don't get to bunk over with him. Kinda like Newton ignoring his physics teacher (not sure about this- just take the princible)
2. Because God cannot stand any sin. He sent Jesus, and if you sin, you can by free will give it to him, but otherwise no going.
3. You mean, with huge debts racked up for the sinly damage they've done to his property (e.g. themselves)? Even a good person is a virus compared to God.
4. I love fine details. I often give crappy arguements at 12:30 during the night, and then refine them to stiletto sharpness later.
I get so pissed off when people try to put foward ideas, when the facts behind them are false. If you believe that i have got the wrong end of the stick, debate.
Take it easy Ytaker, people often get pissed of when they don't understand something... its normal, just take a deep breathe here, I'm going to walk you through this....
Despite hell being defined as the abscence of God, people have historically associated the concept of hell with the image of burning. It is not uncommon to hear certain denominations speak of things such as hellfire, burning in hell, etc...
And Newton invented Physics, he also invented Calculus.
According to how you interpret your religion then yes, these statements are false. However I find your religion to be false, I believe that despite whatever verses you find ancient books the facts do not support your religion. This does not mean that there isnt a chance your right, you could be. But, I think that christianity does not have some absolute monopoly on religious truth. Its very possible that someone else's interpretation of God or the Bible or Islam or Judaism could in fact be the correct intrepretation. Because you beleive that something in the Bible says different only makes a difference if you accept the Bible as holy. If you don't beleive in Christianity, it doesn't matter to them what the Bible says.
I know what your going to say, your going to think of some stupid annalogy like "if you unscrew your light bulb does that mean there is no electricity going to the lamp?" or "just because you unplug the tv, doesnt mean there isnt still programming going on"
Well, just because you and all Christianity beleive in God and Jesus doesn't make it true. There are a lot of people out there who disagree with you and can make equally convincing arguements on why they have the only true religion. I will use an analogy to help explain this for you since I know you like them so much. Think of God as the Easter Bunny, as much as you would like the Easter Bunny to exist, he doesn't. It doesn't matter if you have books that say he exists. It doesn't matter if you build the easter bunny churches and pray to him. He still isn't there.
I wasn't comparing them to God, I was comparing them to Christians. And again, I think you are missunderstanding what I wrote.
Don't flatter yourself. And don't blame poor responses to the time of day. Its sad.
1. It says that there is no light in hell. This is a small detail that I pointed out.
2. That's why I asked you to just take the principles.
3. No, I would say that If you don't move one of your pawns or knights forward, I cannot try to checkmate you. We debate these, we don't just say that they might be true, or might not.
4. I hate that example. It has the same idea as... some P guy's watch god exists example. A watch has a maker, it is complex and purposeful, the universe has a maker, it is complex and purposeful blah blah blah. You push forward an idea that another is false, with the momentum of a stupid idea. If people actually did that, in the masses like Christianity has, that would improve the bunny's chance of existing, as intelligent people would be included. They don't.
Dark and Light are metaphoric terms used to symbolized whether or not something is good or evil. God is the light. Evil is darkness. If there is no light in hell, that means that all that is in hell is evil. If ghadi is not sent to heaven, but sent to hell you are saying that Ghandi is an evil person. I refuse to accept that statement. He was not a Christian, but I dont think that because you are a non-Christian that you are evil.
I consider your response to my points to be poor. I think that your arguement would be a lot more understandable and potential more persuasive if you chose to respond by writting a response out in paragraph form instead of numbered comments that don't correspond to any numbers used in the previous post.
If you are too tired to respond intelligently to a difficult arguement maybe it is better rest and save arguing for another time. I personally don't find it difficult to debate even late at night, when fatigue sets in I go to sleep.
Evil compared to God. Come to think of it, so am I. Compared to me, Gandhi might be a nuclear bomb to mixing water and sand, but compared to God, he's evil. However, you have a point with the light. But, hell is supposed to be different for everyone. Some must be in lesser darkness. I think the current idea is that the afterlife is the ultimate version of your life (e.g. your soul)
2. He he he.
Your body, your choices. I can't always make time earlier, and I find this fun. So I go online.
Last edited by Ytaker on Oct 9th, 2004 at 07:44 PM
If there is no light in hell how does someone who is not completely evil get sent there? Yes, Ghandi was not perfect, niether am I, and as you pointed out niether are you, however if he is not a fundementally evil person I don't see how he ends in hell even if he does not compare favorably to god.
God cannot tolerate a smidgen of sin. So if you do not get forgiveness, then he will not tolerate you in heaven. But, by your idea, very few people should get admission. Very few people are pure evil. So, that's why I put foward the theory of ultimate life. Gandhi lives the pinnacle of his life without God.
That doesnt really convince me that Ghandi went to hell, but I understand what you are trying to say. I don't know though if I believe that God can not tolerate a smidgen of sin. Why then did god choose Moses to build the arc instead of Jesus? I know that Jesus would not reproduce because its natural sin etc... but I think I've made a point here. God tolerated Moses, and he had sinned... so there are holes there.
If you ask for forgiveness, you received it. That is the plug. He could tolerate sindoers if they did their best, and said sorry if they made a mistake.
That still does not explain why Noah (error-suprised you didnt catch me on that) was saved when everyone else was destroyed... did no one one else at that point pray to God except for Noah and the people who came on the arc with him?
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Oct 8th, 2004 08:33 AM
Ytaker agreed with me once on October 9th, 2004
