Gundam Seed is a very popular Anime/Manga in America right now. But I think a true anime fan will quickly see through it's shoddy characters, bad animation, and boring plot. just because it has the name "Gundam", does not mean it will be good. Am I the on ly one who hates this show?
I don't have time right now, but tomorrow I'll give ya the whole thing. Trust me, I've only met 2-3 people who rival my knowledge of GW. Considering I have every episode right here on my computer, I have all the info I need at my fingertips. Literaly.
That's quite a statement; too bad you're wrong. Heero is by far a more skilled and well balanced person out of the 5 pilots. His unemotionalism targets him to be more discipline than Duo, Wufei, Quatre and Trowa...even Zechs. Heero knows what needs to be done and does it, while the others are distracted by outside forces. And Zechs seeks retrobution for his country's destruction, but is swayed by power and the want for revenge. Heero has none of this. He's set and secure in his ways. As Heero once said, "The only way to win a battle is to fight with your emotions." And his emotions are set on good versus evil. He's also the smartest of the 5 Gundam pilots because he can see the whole picture instead of pieces. He's highly intelligent and a quick learner. He can think on his feet and knows the rules. Mission accomplished.
Heero does have a weakness: Relena. She's the only influence that distracts him. But with every boy, manhood sets in and the basic needs of life are sometimes replaced with new ones. And by these means perspective is often altered by a change in emotional statis.
Heero is IMO the only character that was really fleshed out to the greatest extent. I see him as a madman trapped in a child's body, but a madman who has a strong sense of justice and understanding of his surroundings. At first he saw the world as black or white. After meaning Relena, he was able to deprogam himself into thinking differently. Love has a strange effect on the emotions. And he went with his emotions all-out to protect her even though he didn't want to. His instinct took over. Things were simplistic: Kill the enemy and allow the righteous to survive. Things would have been much simplier if he'd killed her, but he couldn't because it was wrong.
He soon came to see his misgivings only to gravitate with more misfortune. With allowing Relena to survive he was given the opporunity to see more clearly: a multi-color world, so to speak. Quartre on the other with blind rage took iout his anger on the colonies after his father was killed instead of seeing the whole picture: that the colonies were merely pawns to the Rollofaller (sp) Foundation and the military. Heero made him realise his wrongs after Trowa's near-death experience in space. "Quartre, I'm going to kill you." Heero says, but doesn't. He knows Quartre is so angry that he can't think right. And yet in the series Quartre is the pacifist. A complete reversial of roles. A sure sign of seeing what the horrors of war and backdoor politics can do to the pure hearted nature of a boy like Quartre.
It was at this point that Heero came to the conclusion that he knew nothing of what he was fighting for anymore. He didn't have a clear-cut path to follow like he once did. And he soon fell prey to a new evil: his own mind, when he entered the Winged Zero. The Winged Zero did all his thinking for him and it was black and white.
But after coming to the conclusion he loved Relena but was afraid to show it, he fought off the effects of the Winged Zero control and found purpose again. Zechs was the enemy now. With the armed battle station ready to blow up the earth: the target was clear. And Heero's enemy was clear. But Zech is Relena's brother. Could he kill the brother of the woman he loved? Zechs had become the person Heero was to become if he didn't meet Relena. Heero had finally seen what his short-sightedness had done when he started out with 01 and this was his chance to make amense, even if that meant sacrificing himself to save the planet he had in all purposes a year before targetted for destruction.
-- sorry for all the spelling mistakes --
Last edited by Reborn Again on Sep 22nd, 2004 at 05:59 PM
Good look introspection, and I do agree with you that Heero was the most delved into character. The reason why? He is the archetype that everyone loves... the invincible, always gets his mission completed, emotionaly torn, love-struck do gooder. Now, here we go. (Note, if I seem to get heated, it's only because I've had this argument with dozens of fanboys/girls who refuse to actually look at the facts)
In the start of the series, this is true, but as we progress, Heero actually falls behind the other pilots. He is constantly in doubt of himself, and loosing control. Zero system has the most profound effect on Trowa, Quatre and Heero simply because their own sub-concious doubts their ability to live through with their ideals. Heero believes himself to be the perfect soldier, and that he must always get that good 'ole mission complete, when in reality he is torn inside. Like you say, his love for Relena causes him to doubt himself and to look back at his past and wonder if he's done the right things. Now, with this new look at his life, he cannot truthfully say he's always done what was right, that getting the mission complete wasn't always the right thing to do. As far as more discipline goes, at no point in the show (Or Manga for that matter) can you truly say any of the pilots are more disciplined, as they all defy themselves and their own objectives several times. Actually, Wufei shows to take even less of an effect by outside forces, in episode 35 Wufei leaves his colony knowing that they are doomed, and fights anyways. He instinctivly knows who is enemy is simply because he follows his own code of justice (Which is what one should always do in the first place. Following others is not a good habit) and will fight no matter what to fufill his sense of duty. Duo has shown superior manipulation of his suit and Heero even admits in EW that Duo is a better pilot. Duo, much like Wufei, doesn't let his rage and despair warp his objectives like Heero, Quatre and Trowa, he simply uses it to fuel himself. (Epsiode 4...2 ? 43? The episode where Hilde gets hospitalized. I could go check, but that would require me to minimize and go through the folders. Im in a hurry and much to lazy to do that.) As far as Zechs goes, he is the best pilot, he has the determination of Wufei, the cold remorselessness of Duo, the willpower of Heero, Trowa's unalienable ability to void his own feelings (When not in Zero system) and his own unbelievably high level of piloting skills. You cannot argue for a second Heero is a better pilot. At no point in the show does Heero actually score a deceisive victory (Final battle I don't consider a victory simply because Zechs could have kept on fighting, but chose not to) Heero lost in a SPACE battle with 01 while Zechs was in a GROUND leo. He lost to Zechs when he was piloting the Tallgeese, a suit inferior to 01 in all categories. He lost when he was in Epyon and Zechs was in Zero.
But by bottling up his emotions he sets himself up for an emotional turmoil that sidelines him and forces him to totaly rethink his own views. If he had done like Wufei, Duo and Zechs and let his emotions guide him he would have been more successful.
If that is so then why does he have such a hard time determining who his enemies are? There is no 'good' and 'evil', it is all in the eyes of the viewer. Heero is too weak to make his own views so he follows the views of his commanding officer (or scientist )
Episode 7, heero, Trowa, Quatre and duo go to fight at the _____ base. Heero manages to kill Marshall Noventa... who is negotiating for peace. Wow. Seems like he sure saw THAT whole pictre Here's the exact lines from the episode after Wufei breaks up the fight between Duo and Trowa.
"Check out the alliance's reports. You guys just whiped out the alliance's pacifists."
"Impossible." Checks reports.
-----Stuff inbetween-----
"This was all completely all planned out by OZ, we became their puppets. All planed out by treize kushreinada."
"No... how awful..."
"Damn him..."
Silence
"But I'm going to fight you Oz... even if I've got to do it on my own."
"What... what have i done?"
(guess who says which lines and win a no-prize )
He IS intelligent, but not as much as Zechs or Wufei. Zechs is older and a life-long soldier, he's like Heero, but with lots more experience. Wufei is a scholar.
Blowing yourself up is mission accomplished? I coulda sworn he said mission aborted (or something along those lines)
After meeting relena hes in that state for more then half the series. And he meets relena in episode 1.
Nothing wrong there. It's a fact. Heero has more screentime then any other character. He has more then any other pilot and almost as much as Wufei and Noine combined (They have very little screen time compared to the other pilots)
So your previous statement that he didnt let outside forces get in the way is void. He didn't even know relena and he didn't kill her like he should have.
I see nothing wrong with that.
Not only that but he was under the effect of the Zero system. Even Heero has made horrible choices under the Zero system, so this is no way to try and make him look stronger by comparison.
See above.
Yessum it sure did.
Took him long enough. Wufei had that figured out in his first appearance in the show.
Heero didn't have that problem at all. His problem was that he truly understood Zechs, and with his new state of mind didn't wish to hurt ANYONE, nevermind someone as well meaning as Zechs. Heero knew Zechs' meaning was right, but that destroying the earth was the wrong way to do this. Much like Hitler, Zechs had the final idea right, but completely wrong way of going about it. (Hitler wanted a utopia, but he tried to reason that there was a perfect race, world domination, fascism, etc. Very very very wrong. Don't take this as me saying I support hitler, I'm just pointing out he had the right idea with the Utopia thing. But he went about it completely wrong, IMO)
He originaly hadnt targetted earth for destruction, he simply wanted to destroy Earth's military powers so the colonies could be free. He chose to save the world to save the innocents, as show in EW, Heero has never truly come to terms with his own failings. To quote Heero myself;
"How many more times must I kill that girl and her dog...?"
I REFUSE! :-p Don't worry, it was legible so I don't have a problem with it.
Well, you certainly have a lot to say. Good. You make some very valuable points...as do I. I'll make this short as I don't have a lot of time.
Heero IS the more skilled figher, and he's able to master any weapons system more quickly than any one else and utilize that ability in combat. I believe this to be true. And I agree he never decisively won any battle against Zech: they were all draws as each one had enough respect for the other to retreat and fight another day when things got hairy. In the end Heero came out victorious, however, according to the rules of combat, but he personally didn't think so, believing he was the loser.
I never said Heero said, "Mission Accomplished". It was merely a phrase I used to end a thought. When he blew up 01 what he actually says is "Mission accepted". Check the episode.
Alas, he isn't. In one battle Wufei masters the Zero system, why? Because he does not doubt his choices, or rather, he makes his choices based on his own ideals. It takes Heero much longer to even cope with what the Zero system tells him. Meanwhile, Zechs learns Epyon and Zero in a fraction of the time that it takes Heero...
Also... about Heero being a better pilot then Wufei or Zechs.
Notice that in EW, Heero has to use all of his skills to defend against Altron's attacks in the Leo. Yes, it was a leo, but he isn't a normal pilot. He does have enough skill to defend himself, but not enough to fight back. He parries 2 attacks and dodges 3-4 before being hit. Now, we move on to the final fight where Heero is wielding Wing Zero, a suit statisticly better in every category except fighting. Simply put, Heero was struggling to keep up. Notice that they parry eachothers blows, but Heero retreats after each strike, because he knows for a fact he cannot defeat Wufei if he stays in melee range. After being struck, and almost landing an attack himself, Heero proceeds to use superior speed and power to force Wufei out of space and into the Earth's atmosphere. As far as combat is considered, I'd call that a Wufei victory.
As far as Heero and Zech's fights are concerned... Zechs had 2 decisive victories. The first episode Zechs DODGES a blaster rifle shot with his ground leo and forces Heero to crash into the Ocean. In episode 10, Zechs WAS in control of the fight, but decides to stop after Une's treachery. Heero scores a blow while Tallgeese stands still. In episode 16, Zechs is about to land the killing blow on Heero (He's injured, so this isn't as important of a victory. Hell, he was slaughtering him the entire fight.) when Relena (I hate her with all my soul) stops him. Lucky Heero. In episode 37 (38 maybe? I'm now hurrying!) Zechs and Heero battle, and Zechs ends the fight by blowing off epyon's shield and slamming him into the ground. Heero recovers some time later.
If you look back at the series as a whole... Heero loses the majority of his 1 v 1 fights.
Your dedication and knowledge to the series is awestruck! I haven't seen the series in awhile. However I do have a different prespective on the series. I still believe Heero is the better pilot both mentality and strategically. I'll have to review the series to get back to you on the rest of your argument. Nice to know you followed the series so closely.
Its like 200 bucks... if you get the collectors edition. I might just save up and get that... Some of my copies are great quality, some are sub-par. But they are all above watchable, and it's great to have them right here anyways.
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Sep 21st, 2004 04:32 PM
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