He ignores everything. It's very annoying. He doesn't understand genetics or biology so any evidence concerning genetics or biology MUST be false. Please.
I realize that this is a controversal topic, but please, let's leave the snide remarks about people's intellegence out of this.
I didn't ignore anything. Just because I didn't quote it and have comments to say about does NOT mean I didn't read it. Also, did I blame you for not knowing a whole lot ab out genetics and biology? No I did not. In fact, I openly admitted that the post you made about chromoses and the Xq28 gene or whatever was confusing, thus why I asked
Did you bother explaining it to me? No.
Wow. When did I say this? I never said anything aout genetics or biology being false. . . .you must be making that up.
Read over what I wrote. It's not there.
__________________
Learn from yesterday...
Live for today...
Hope for tomorrow...
In a debate you contribute evidence to bolster your argument. I contribute amass scientific evidence from very credible resources which have been awarded Nobel Prizes for the findings. The protakers of the evidence are well-established experts on the subject. You on the other hand contributed "We have free will. We choose everything" and an editorial from a doctor who's about to his licence. No contest.
No you what you said is "There is absolutly no proof supporting this hypothesis." Which is completely false. I posted several "proofs" You chose to ignore it. You didn't refute them. You just said that they were confusing over and over again. I was assuming that since you didn't refute any of these arguments with credible evidence, much less acknowledge them, you ignored it.
There's a very very fatal flaw in your assumption that homosexuality is a choice: you can't prove it. You have no evidence. Just assumptions and bias.
I have on the other hand contributed numerous evidences to my argument.
Saying one argument's evidence is faulty so OBVIOUSLY another argument must be true. That doesn't fly. You can critize my evidence all you want. It won't matter. Why? Because you have no evidence yourself. Saying that my evidence is faulty does not automatically mean homosexuality is a choice. Which is all you have been doing.
listen then: you said that people are acting on these feelings to become gay!! right, thats what your saying. They choose to act on these feelings and then because they do, they are now gay.
Im saying that, these feelings have been there before they choose to act on them. You say that someone might have feelings for the opp sex and have done nothing about it. You are saying if someone acts on them then they have choosen to be gay. It doesnt work like that. The mare fact that these feelings are there in the first place before acting on them, means that that person is already gay. With out a choice of the matter, with out acting on the feelings that they have, they are gay. And there fore they havent choosen to act on them, they are still gay because they are attracted to the opposite sex. But they NEVER choose to act on them to become gay, they already were gay. Hense it is not choosen!!
Hun, I'm not doing this for brownie points. I understand that you supply proof in a debate. I was sharing my opinion. However, I'll tell you what you DON'T do in a debate:
Again, I admitted that I didn't understand that Xq28 chromosomes stuff that you were saying, but telling me that I don't WANT to understand it is ridiculous. I asked you a question about that, see my last post. I'm still waiting for an answer.
Again, saying that Dr. Throckmorton is a fraud or whatever you said, is COMPLETLY opinion. So insulting my intellegence, or whatever you called yourself doing is not necessary or appreciated.
That's the problem. You. Assuming. As I've already stated, just because I didn't "refute" them doesn't mean I ignored them. I've asked you questions, trying to understand that Xq28 chromosome stuff. Have you answered? No. Still waiting.
I'm sharing my opinion on why I think being gay is choice. Do what you will with that. All this evidence and stuff that you're posting, fine. I'm posting the same stuff, evidence that I've found. You say that Dr. Dr. Throckmorton is a fraud. Again, your opinion.
Like I've been saying all of this time. If gays are truly "born" this way, why is SO hard for people to prove this? There are articles supporting it, articles dis-proving it. Why the back and forth? If there is truly something in our genetic make-up that "forces" a person to be gay, then why can't scientist find it? Shouldn't it be in plain site?
Also, why are certain people born this way? All are humans, why are some born gay and others born straight? Do straight people have something in there genetic code that "makes" them be straight? This is the part that I don't get. Post all the evidence you want, I welcome it! But it still doesn't explain these questions.
__________________
Learn from yesterday...
Live for today...
Hope for tomorrow...
What I said was that being gay is a choice. Never said anything them acting on these feelings made them gay. Nope. Didn't say that.
Okay now you're getting into "feeling" and such that's very deep. Why people have these feelings for the same sex? I guess that's the same as why some people have feelings for animals? You know, those people who say there in love with there cow or whatever, and that they are destined to be. Where they too born this way? The fact that these feeliongs exist for that animal, does that mean that they were born with this and can't help it?
These are holes.
__________________
Learn from yesterday...
Live for today...
Hope for tomorrow...
Your opinions are welcome. However they lack facts or evidence. Thus they are not substantial to me.
I apologize I must have missed this. The Xq28 chromosome is a genetic code. Let's put it these way. There are different types of computer files right? MP3 represents Mpeg Audio Layer 3 for example. The code represents a music file. On the other hand a MP4 would represent Mpeg Layer 4. A movie file. Completely different things. On the genetic strand there are specific genes which are A, B, Y etc. The DNA strand is approximately FOUR BILLION chromosomes long each containing genes. That means there are literally an infinite combination of genes. It can be "ABABAYABYA" or "AYBAYRABY" The potentials are limitless. Specific genetic codes make different things. One code would make someone have brown eyes while another code would make someone have have blue eyes. Different codes make different things. What makes the Xq28 study so intriguing is that they found this genetic code in the same position on the genetic strand for every homosexual they encountered. Heterosexuals however did not display the Xq28 chromosome sequence. Genetic codes are literally blueprints. The genetic codes determine who we are just as architecture blueprints determine the form of a building. The Xq28 chromsomal code was found in homosexuals and not heterosexuals despite location, age, race, and creed. This would suggest that that xq28 genetic code has something to do with the biological predisposition of homosexuality.
Dr. Throckmorton is a con artist. He's facing several liability lawsuits because A) his therapies are psychologically damaging to the patients (which explains why more than dozen of his patients attempted or committed suicide AFTER taking his therapy sessions.) B) he swore that he could "cure" the homosexuals for a fee. His "cures" were not substantiated. As I said before, a very miniscule percent of his patients who took his "therapies" remained "heterosexual" for more than two months before finally getting their heads together to finally accept their sexuality. ZERO percent remained "heterosexual" after they were "cured". His therapies are frauds. He gets thousands in money for therapies that don't work. His research methods also involve electro-shock therapy. On teenagers without their consent even. He's pending to lose his medical license. THAT's why he's a fraud. The American Psychological Association agrees. It's YOUR poorly substantiated opinion that he's "credible".
Your opinions are appreciated. But they are just that. Opinions nothing more. My opinion is that Spider-Man movies are overrated. I have no evidence to back this. Your opinions are loosely based on your own personal assumptions and bias. NO PROOF. NO EVIDENCE. That's why your opinion is just an opinion. Not a hypothesis. Not a theory. Both require evidence. Which you STILL haven't provided.
The DNA strand is more than FOUR BILLION chromosomes long. It takes days just to analyze ONE. The scientific method requires full investigation. However with the amass studies performed nearly every scientist is convinced that homosexuality is predetermined.
The why will never be answered. Why is the world round? Why are there stars? Why do we have only two legs when other animals have four? We're not God. We don't know. The most common perception is that homosexuality is nature's failsafe for over-reproduction. In a Norway study performed by Oxford University scientists. They reproduced dozens of rabbits in a contained open field. There were no predators to eat them so they kept on reproducing. Eventually when the population reached the tens of thousands, they discovered that several rabbits were having sex or partnering themselves with members of their own gender. They developed a mathematical equation which determine for every percentage of rabbits concieved the more homosexual rabbits would appear. In other words, the larger the population the larger the percentage of homosexual rabbits appeared. 2% grew to 10% and eventually topped at an amazing 24%.
I post evidence. You may welcome it. But you certainly don't refute it.
As I have said you haven't posted any credible evidence proving your opinion. Just because one theory doesn't answer certain questions regarding the subject doesn't automatically make the other theory correct. That's not logic.
You seem to believe that since scientific findings regarding homosexuality don't answer everything about it than OBVIOUSLY it must be a choice. I can't function like that.
Post evidence. Not opinions. Or opinions degrading the work or evidence of the findings. I actually want to hear what credible proof you have that homosexuality is a choice. And since you haven't I am still the victor of this debate.
Why do people have feelings for the opposite sex? Comparing zoophilia to homosexuality is a very poor argument. Zoophilia is the sexual compulsion to have sex with animals. This is usually do to brain lesions (found in nearly 97% percent of convicted zoophiles in the Midwest) or several environmental factors. (child abuse) They don't fall in love with the animals. They simply commit buggery. The major difference between zoophilia is that zoophilia is a mental disease, it can be treated, and it is not a sexual orientation.
It isn't that there is no proof, it's that you seem not to understand the evidence. I think I have encountered a few more gay people in my time, and not once...let me repeat that...NOT ONCE have I EVER heard a single one of them say they chose to be gay. So, you can lie about all the gay people you've spoken to, but that doesn't change anything about this argument.
And anyone that uses the argument that gay people choose to be gay and then say they choose to act on it is a ridiculous statement. I have said many times, sex does not make you gay. Emotions do.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Last edited by Devil King on Mar 25th, 2005 at 03:42 PM
Gender: Male Location: in tule once again...:( away from m
i know you guys are deep in a argument..but uh..i jus wanted to say that i believe that (humans at least) we fall in love with whomever we fall in love with. i myself am "bisexual" in that i've had desires to be with both women and men.
i don't believe i chose to be this way it jus..happened really. but i dont think i was "destined" either. i dont know how to explain it..its hard to jus say.
Ever heard the quote from Interview with the Vampire?
"God kills indescriminately and so shall we".
Love is the same, attraction also. If we could choose the people or sex we fell in love with, it would be a much simpler, less hateful world. It would also be much less enchanting when it does happen.
Why are people homosexual? The WHY doesn't matter, these pages of debate are for nothing.
Why doesn't matter. What matters is that regardless of why, it's happening and it's here and the sooner we realise that it's nothing bad, the sooner we can get on with evolving.
Trying to figure out why the Earth spins a certain way is all well and good but knowing why doesn't change the FACT that it spins the way it does, nor could you reverse it by knowing why.
The same applies with homosexuality. Knowing WHY it happens is of no consequence. It happens.
Another movie quote:
"See that machine? Has something to do with recycling our water. Now I have no idea how it works, but I know why. I don't know how you are able to do some of the things you do, Neo...but I believe there is a reason for that too."
If a reason is what you want, just know that there is one and be comfortable with it.
I fully believe that it is not a choice, that only acting on it is a choice. I didn't CHOOSE to fall in love with who I did, it happened. I DID choose to act upon my feelings, though, and I do not regret for a moment that I did. I do not choose to be attracted to both guys and girls, its simply how I am. And you know what? I don't regret it at all, and I don't care why I am this way because it's how I am. If ever I decide to act upon those feelings and go out with another girl, that would be my choice. But having the feelings in the first place? No, I don't choose for those to happen.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 25th, 2005 12:22 AM
