go to pages 70 and skim through till page 85 or so...I believe you;ll find your answer here...
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
I'm not saying he can't just that the chances of it happening are very very slim.....VERY...
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
Good I'm glad you finally admitted to this. So based on their skills and abilities and defined by Marvel as well as generally demonstrated in the comic book world, are Cap, Wolvie, DD overwhelming superior to Spider Man in the areas of..
speed?
precognition?
reflexes?
strength?
agility?
long range attacks?
If your answer to these questions is "yes"...then there is no reason for us to continue to debating, because you will have essentially proved yourself to be a fanboy.
If the answer to these questions is no, then let me follow up with another question...
Do these "superior abilities" give Spider man an advantage coming into this battle?
A plot device is a person or an object introduced to a story to affect or advance the plot. In the hands of a skilled writer, the reader or viewer will not notice that the device is a construction of the author—it will seem to follow naturally from the setting or characters in the story. A poorly-written story, on the other hand, may have such awkward or contrived plot devices that the reader has serious trouble maintaining suspension of disbelief; indeed, the devices may even leave plot holes
Does everyone in here know what a plot device is now?
The only thing that you've proved Jinzin, is that you are very "consistent" with giving misleading information regarding the "consistencies" of battles between the respected combatants.
Let us also not forget, that you've neglected to give us the "complete" story lines, regarding each and every one of the respective battles mentioned above. I can guarantee that all of the examples you've given, involved some sort of "plot device" (there's that word again..)
And let us also not forget, that each and everyone one of your respective examples can be easily rebutted with similar "circular arguments."
Examples of circular arguments:
DD has constantly admitted that he has no chance against Spider man when the wallcrawler is going all out, and is not "hypnotized"<--note..key word here is "hypnotized."
Spider man has constantly humiliated the Red Skull, whom Cap has much difficulty with.
Spider man has constantly webbed up, out maneuvered and made a fool of Wolverine on multiple occasions. (ie X - men Fight, Marvel knights SM, etc)
Stop making up stories. As mentioned above, he's demonstrated the ability to web up Wolverine rather easily on several occasions.
You completely lack the ability to reason while debating. Again Jinzin, let me ask you some questions, and please attempt to use logic while answering them.
How is it that Cap and Daredevil would be able to quickly remove the webbing from Wolverine, when characters much stronger than themselves have struggled for a good while to get out of it?
What hinders Spider man from webbing up another Trio member, while they are attempting to free they're fallen comrade?
What long range attacks and abilities do any of the Trio members possess, that would inhibit SM from jumping away and webbing them up while they were attempting to keep SM "buisy"?
I read that issue of MK Spider man..and its fairly obvious the the wallcrawler was not trying to completely web Wolverine up, kill him, or fighting with the idea of "any means necessary" in mind.
How did I come to this conclusion..well from the onset of the "battle", get ready for this..it was established by Captain a that the "battle" was merely a..duh..duh..duh..duh.."TRAINING SESSION."
Argument dead. Seriously bud..you might as well hang it up on this one.
Pardon me for being rude, but based on your credibility, I find it highly dubious that the examples you've given above are accurate portrayals of what actually took place in those stories. As far as Spider man being able to web up Wolverine goes, refer to the previous responses.
PIS or not, you've constantly given little evidence to validate any of your arguments as being plausible or logical. Concentrate more on the content of what your arguing, and less on the aesthetics(ie scanning pictures) and I can guarantee you that your arguments will carry more credibility.
__________________ If knowledge is power..how come we have so many idiots in charge?!!
Last edited by whobdamandog on Aug 6th, 2005 at 10:46 PM
sweet sig and avy wonderer....whob I'll get to you later...
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Actually I'd have to say no. SM can create bats, shields, and a multitude of other weapons with the webbing. He can use these items just as effectively as Captain America or Daredevil can with the shield or the billy club.
Don't forget that the webbing can also be sprayed out as a net, as a long strand, or as a sticky glue...so yes SM's long range attacks are much more versatile, and can be used much more effectively than any of the Trio.
__________________ If knowledge is power..how come we have so many idiots in charge?!!
A web-shield and web-bat makes no difference at long range and I can't think of a single thing Spidey could make out of webbing that would be a useable ranged weapon. A web dart? He can't make web-bullets and flick them at the trio and he doesn't possess impact-webbing. It doesn't matter, however, because of the next point...
No, his web-shooters don't do any of those anymore, because nowadays he has web-spinnerettes, not web-shooters. As far as I'm aware, there is no stainless steel nozzle in Peter's wrist that can be manipulated or exchanged in order to alter the way the silk is projected. At the moment, Spidey is limited to web-lines, using them however he may. As an attack on its own, there's little that a web-line can do offensively.
As far as we've seen? No. It also wouldn't make very much sense if he did.
I hate how Marvel likes to change things because of the movie. I don't care that it makes 'Peter not seem as smart', because that's a dumb remark, but it does limit Peter's capabilities a bit for absolutely no reason at all.
If he distances himself from the Trio and fires a webline, it would then be considered a "useable ranged weapon." There's a multitude of things he can do from a distance by just firing weblines. Here are but a few examples:
1. Completely web them up.
2. Snag one of the Trio and lob them a couple miles.
3. Snag a large object(ie car, boulder, etc) and lob it at them.
Please remember that SM has "2" weblines that he can work with at any given time.
Will Cap/DD/Wolverine be standing there just waiting for him to web them? Of course not. However, Spider man has consistently proved the ability to "snag" moving targets that are much faster than any of the Trio. (ie goblin gliders, cars, large boulders, Airplanes, trains, super-humans, etc, etc)
Keep in mind, that I have yet to include the other weapons he can create with the webbing. I'm sure Spider man could throw a web shield, bat, or net just as effectively from long range as Cap or DD could do with the shield or billy club. And he need not worry about loosing said weapons after they have been thrown, since he is able to simply create another one.
Well we've never clearly defined what versions of the characters we are using in this debate, or the setting in which they are fighting. However for the sake of keeping the debate fair and interesting, lets just say that Spiderman is limited to his weblines, and the battle takes place out in the desert.
What factors hinder SM from distancing himself from the much slower, less agile Trio, and what factors inhibit him from performing any of the ranged attacks with the weblines that were mentioned above?
__________________ If knowledge is power..how come we have so many idiots in charge?!!
Last edited by whobdamandog on Aug 7th, 2005 at 12:08 PM
Gender: Male Location: I'm everywhere man, EVERYWHERE!
Ok I see the problem here.
If he distances himself, it gives them all more time to react.
Didn't work on Wolvie, he got out basically at will. Cap has a shield and DD's pretty sharp on those senses.
Yup here it is, you seem to think that these three guys are common thugs. If you can give any example whatsoever of these tactics actually working on heros (or villians) of the calibre of the heros in question, then I'd consider it.
Please remember that there are "3" of them and they all work as a team in the presence of MU's greatest leader.
Faster, not Better.
Yeah I thought of that, it doesn't change anything.
The fact that he's not taking anyone out from a distance.
True. But can is it logical to assume that the icon Trio will react quickly enough to someone who is several times faster than themselves, has a reaction time up to 30 times greater, and has a the ability to predict when they are going to attack?
Okay lets simplify things a bit by having you answer a few questions.
Would you agree that spider man has demonstrated strength that enables him to pick up heavy objects like boulders, cars, trucks, tanks, building structures, etc..etc?
Are Cap/Wolvie/Daredevil heavier than cars, trains, and large building structures?
Has SM demonstrated the ability to to snag moving objects such as trains, cars, airplanes, and goblin gliders, with his webbing?
If your answer to any of these questions is "no"..we might as well stop right here, because you will have essentially proved yourself to be a Cap/Wolvie/DD fanboy.
However if your answers are yes..then I'll assume you have enough common sense to come to your own conclusions as to the plausibility of the webline battle "tactics" actually working.
*FYI On multiple occasions, the wallcrawler has managed to snag and throw Puma, Green Goblin, Wolverine, Morbius, and countless others with the webline.
Please give examples of when these three have worked together effectively as a team in a random battle, uninhibited by morals, and going for the kill against an opponent who is 20-30 times stronger, can sense each of their attacks, many times faster, has a reaction time 30-40 times greater, and has a strong cable-like substance that can be fired from a distance at them at will.
If you can give me an example of a scenario such as this happening involving the Trio, and of tactics that were used to taking down this opponent, then I might consider your argument to be plausible...
That's just an opinion.
Well I guess that says it all about Cap's shield and DD's Billy Club being effective "long range weapons."
Damb Merc you really got me in the mood with those last couple of arguments. They were really great. You consistently amaze me with your debating skills. Your seem to be getting better and better!! Gotta say..I'm really impressed!! :laugh
__________________ If knowledge is power..how come we have so many idiots in charge?!!
Last edited by whobdamandog on Aug 7th, 2005 at 02:21 PM
Full description of what happened in the pic above:
MK Knights Spider Man. Training session..SM easily evades Wolverine's initial attack, snags him with the webbing and throws him up against the wall. He does not attempt to completely web up and fully incapicitate him, which could have easily been done, but seeing as how this is only a TRAINING SESSION..I guess Peter felt it wasn't necessary.
And before someone reposts the next page, I will go ahead and do it for you. Wolverine manages to "cut" his way out of the webbing. A cocky wide open SM lunges at Wolverine. Seeing as how this was a TRAINING SESSION, SM probably carelessly ignores his Spider sense as he has done countless times, which allows Wolverine to get a stab in...
(please log in to view the image)
__________________ If knowledge is power..how come we have so many idiots in charge?!!
Last edited by whobdamandog on Aug 7th, 2005 at 02:52 PM
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"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Aug 6th, 2005 08:16 PM
SM can create bats, shields, and a multitude of other weapons with the webbing. He can use these items just as effectively as Captain America or Daredevil can with the shield or the billy club. 
:laugh
