How is it harder to believe that? If you believe God always existed, it doesn't sound like applying the same idea to the universe itself would be a stretch.
I didn't say god always existed....I'm saying some type of intelligent force must have influenced the first set of motions that came into existence in our known universe.
It is not a stretch to believe that the universe always existed....but is it a stretch to believe that there are other things outside the known universe in which time never existed at all?
I'm not persuading people one way or another. We've all got our own beliefs, but I just think it's a shame that people can't see the vast complexities of life and the universe itself, to the point that they can't even question the possibilities of a superior intelligence.
lol But it is equally nonsensical for me to believe that everything was created from some "giant bang." Also, did something influence that giant bang....or did is just spontaneously happen? Like the computer I type from right now, it did not spontaneously poof out of thin air to create a screen, keyboard, hardware, etc. It was both created, and programed to exist and operate intelligently.
Imagine 600 years ago telling someone the world was round, and it was floating in the middle of an empty space, rotating around a giant ball of light. They'd have thought you were nuts. lol
One way or another, I can't provide people 100 percent proof of god or a superior intelligent being existing, just as people can't provide me with 100 percent proof explaining how the universe works under a set of laws.
But personally, I just like to question some of these things, given the nature that the universe is so big and we are so tiny....perhaps there are many things about our world we are just incapable of knowing or proving.
When you fall you could either say its gravity or you could say it's millions of invisible faeries pushing down on you. You can't disprove the tiny faeries but since there's no reason to believe in them why bother?
No, not really similar at all. In fact that belief is one of the biggest fallacies that biologists complain about transhumanists making.
That's circular logic. If you only count things that are made by man then obviously it would seem that everything is made by man. But it doesn't make sense to only count the things that are made by man when counting all the things that are made.
You miss out on all the best and most complex stuff if you limit yourself to only looking at things people make. Trees. Mountains. Cells. Wind. Animals. Plants. Molecules. Proteins. Organs. Fire.
Random chance can create spectacular results. A good example happens to be in the news right now. Fermilab (a particle accelerator) performed an experiment where they got an inexplicable result that had a 0.076% of occurring randomly. But lots of physicists aren't impressed. One even said that he couldn't believe anyone really cared! The reason is that that experiment was one among millions that they did that during the same study. Eventually that's seeming impossibility becomes inevitable.
Oh, and atom smashing is another natural thing you're ignoring. It happens constantly in our planet's upper atmosphere!
I everything came from somewhere then what created God? And if God is eternal why can't reality be eternal?
Uh, no. If the rule were different then they would act differently. Nothing about that implies intelligence.
2+2=4 but if those 2s were 3s the answer would be 6, no guiding intelligence involved.
No one can ever prove anything as 100% correct. I'd still side with the thing that's probably correct over the thing that's probably wrong and I'll always side over the thing that's known to be useful over the thing that tells me nothing.
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Graffiti outside Latin class.
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A juvenal prank.
But you do believe that there can be a complex superior being that was never created by anything? That seems like a big contradiction since that being would likely be more complex than the universe itself.
That's what i feel like when i'm talking to you. The fact that you thought that was some kind of criticism of MY side is extremely funny.
Science never claims to 100 percent prove anything... in fact the very notion of 100 percent proving something, actually is against scientific principles.
Wow. You act like science means you never question nature. When the entire purpose of science is precisely that.
God was like us at one point, and he, through repentance, became perfect, just like we can be, and was given power like unto his "God". This process has been happening for eternity, and there are infinite "Gods" in charge of their own universes. (that is what I believe)
Existence has to be eternal It doesn't make any sense otherwise. Weather that existence was God's, or ours, I don't know, but that sort of thing isn't important, and is beyond our level of comprehension. I think of time as being simply an illusion, something we created so that we can...simplify the universe, doing that, "infinity" doesn't seem so amazing. But, as a human, it is hard to completely disregard time as a factor, but that is kind of my point, we are incapable of fully understanding.
Read the Bible. And read all the other books that support creation and completely smash the evolution theory. And that's just what it is- a theory. And what's the perpose of life without God?
__________________ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
I also have a similar theory. I think of the 11-dimensional reality to be "God's Creation" but it is an almost completely self-sustaining system. It is so extremely complex that only someone of God-Like intelligence is capable of keeping track of it and creating it in a way as to produce life like our own. Every single rule or law that governs every single universe was planned for and known as one grand "eternal now" with this God. All of those rules had a purpose. It is a "butterfly" effect to the most extreme level. It would be almost infinitely more complicated than the classical butterfly effect of "if a butterfly flaps its wings in Africa, does it cause a hurricane?" The answer is much more complicated because this God I believe in did all of this stuff very intentionally. Now, Bardock42 may very well be right about such an entity being so far beyond our comprehension as to make contemplating or forming a personal relationship with such an entity, beyond silly and futile. I am tending to agree with him as I get older and think about these things more and more in depth. However, I will never fully agree: I think that such a being is fully capable of knowing every minute and grand detail of His/Her/Its creation so we cannot say for sure that "It" would not care about us. Maybe not in a way that we can comprehend but It probably still does care. I prefer to think of it as a He but it would most likely be genderless (let's be real...even Jesus being born as a man ... if we assume the Jesus-God idea is correct... could be just the tool God used to connect with man. He/She/It could still be genderless but had to take that form out of necessity. However, I view Jesus as just a man that obtained God-hood or God-Like ascension after his tenure on earth...being a Mormon and all).
Now, it's possible that the God I give credit for all this is actually a very very low-level God. His God would be this super-God over the entirety of all. Compare to the "One-Above-All" in Marvel comics, if you will.
Why? Why do I need to invoke a deity for everything (on the most literal sense...everything)? I can function and live in this universe (even if humans don't figure out how to overcome both mortality and entropy in my lifetime) and be completely happy to the utmost degree possible. So why do I keep finding myself going back to some sort of supreme being?
Why do you? We are both smart fellas that love the crap out of science. So why?
Edit - Reading back at the very beginning of this thread...KMC used to be a much friendlier place.
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Last edited by dadudemon on Jan 27th, 2012 at 03:33 AM
How do they smash evolution theory? Or is that your opinion? Yes, it is a thory, but it can be seen throughout history that animals have adapted to their surroundings physically. And as for purpose, there are lots of purposes to live without God.
See, I was of the opinion that the Bible supports evolution...especially the part about "after its own kind" and the fact that it's extremely allegorical/symbolic by even conservative readings. It is only the idiotic and ignorant readings that end up with a direct interpretation.
That's similar to what Darwin said(I think). He actually said that he thought that that might have been how good created all of the different species of animals/organisms.
__________________ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Has no one ever heard of how a planet is born/created? First, it's a nebula. How it becomes a planet mirrors how the creation of the Earth is described in the Bible. Explain that(And remember, the Bible has been around longer than our knowledge of the outside universe).
__________________ For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
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