this is something I don't understand at all. Just because someone says, they are a christain, then they kill in the name of God, doesn't mean they are a Christain. The bible does not tell people to go and kill someone. My point is, people saying they are doing it in the name of God, is in WORDS only, means nothing. That is not what God and Jesus are about. So, all of you saying Christainity is the cruelest religion, doesn't make since to me.
The history of teh christian religion is that in the past it was forced upon other cultures, it was not missonary work that was used to convert people it was brut force, thjat is what makes christianity cruel, they cant run away from the historical part of how it expanded
Gender: Female Location: On the bridge of Insanity...
Look, as I said before, I don't hate the Christians for what they did hundreds of years ago!
But they did come to our towns, and they did burn our villages & people, and they STOLE OUR CROSS! That's right, your precious cross used to be our symbol of faith! But, you guys can have it, I actually prefer the pentacle!
But the Christians did destroy our ways and forced their own upon us! To speak the word PAGAN could mean death in certain places.
So yes, you may be a good people now, but to look people in the eye and say that you were all righteous back then, it's a painful, wicked lie!
__________________
May the Wind always be at your back, and the Sun upon your face...
And may the Winds of Destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars
"But they did come to our towns, and they did burn our villages & people, and they STOLE OUR CROSS! That's right, your precious cross used to be our symbol of faith! But, you guys can have it, I actually prefer the pentacle!"
so did jesus say when he was to be killed, hey guys can you make it a cross i want my followers in the future to use a cross for their faith so they can steal it from another religeon? christians use crosses because jesus was killed on one, how is that stolen?
Gender: Female Location: On the bridge of Insanity...
I didn't say Jesus stole our Cross! Christinity came before Christ was crucified! The CATHOLICS took the cross, as they believed it symbolized their faith better than ours!
__________________
May the Wind always be at your back, and the Sun upon your face...
And may the Winds of Destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars
same with me....i'm orthodox(in christian category) but i dont cast non-christians out! Heck, i believe in magick...i evebn practice it...that doenst mean i hate God, or whatever, i believe in them both...
and it's not a bad thing...
__________________ ..."You cant trust somebody when they think you're crazy!"...
well the cross is something that jesus was crucified on and to them was the ultimate sacrafice so their sins could be forgiven, you don't think its appropriate that christians use crosses??
Gender: Female Location: On the bridge of Insanity...
Exactly!
That's like saying if you have a necklace, and the dress I'm wearing looks better with that necklace than yours, well then it automatically belongs to me!
__________________
May the Wind always be at your back, and the Sun upon your face...
And may the Winds of Destiny carry you aloft to dance with the stars
A Christian Speaks of Wicca and Witchcraft
by James Clement Taylor
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I am a Christian and not a Wiccan. A Christian is one who has been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and who has made a personal, free-will decision to commit himself and all his or her life to our Lord and God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Both of these things are true of me. I am a member of St. Mary's Eastern Orthodox Church, Calhan, Colorado. In this paper, I am not speaking as agent for any church, but I am, entirely on my own responsibility, speaking the truth in love, as we Christians are supposed to do.
A Situation of Strife and Shame:
There are many Christians today who believe that anyone who is not a Christian is doomed to an eternity of suffering in hell. Any decent person, believing this, would be compelled to try to save as many people from this fate as possible. But is this belief correct? Jesus Christ, having noted the faith and righteousness of a Roman centurion, a Pagan, proclaimed:
"Assuredly I say to you, I have not found such great faith, not even in Israel! And I say to you that many will come from east and west, and sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the sons of the kingdom will be cast out into outer darkness. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 8:10-12)
If we accept these words as true, and surely we should, then it is clear that heaven will contain many who are not Christians, and hell will contain many who are! Clearly, throughout the Gospels, Jesus Christ sets forth the criteria for entrance into the kingdom of heaven, and those criteria include love, kindness, forgiveness, and a refusal to judge others:
"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." (Matthew 6:14-15)
"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use, it will be measured back to you." (Matthew 7:2)
"But go and learn what this means: `I desire mercy and not sacrifice.'" (Matthew 9:13)
"Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:36-38)
Is it not clear? Anyone who fails in these things, will calling himself a Christian save him? Anyone who obeys God in these things, will being unbaptized condemn him? Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)
Yet it is not by good works that we earn our way into heaven, because there is no way we can earn the free gift of God's mercy and grace, which alone can save us. But it is clear that it is not by faith, in the sense of sharing the Christian faith, that we are saved, either. The faith which saves us is not faith in the goodness of our works, nor faith that we have the right theology and/or belong to the right church. Rather, it is faith in God, and in His mercy:
"So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy." (Romans 9:16)
But the Wiccans, you will say, do not have faith in God. Yet by their own theology, they certainly do. Those who call them Satan-worshippers are entirely wrong. They do not worship Satan, or even believe that Satan exists. Instead, they worship a Goddess and a God whom they understand as manifestations of a higher and unknown Deity.
Now if you are a Christian, this will sound familiar to you, and it should. In the Bible we find the following:
"Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, `Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore, The One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you" (Acts 17:22-23)
The Wiccans worship the Unknown God, as manifested to them in the form of a Goddess and a God. Therefore, our Bible tells us they worship the same God we do; and if they do not know this, we should know it!
For those of us who are unable to simply stand on God's Word, and must prove to themselves the truth of what it proclaims the holy Apostle John has given us the method for doing this. You have only to attend any public Wiccan ceremony, and test the spirits which are there, to see "whether they are of God" (1 John 4:1). You will find that, while the power manifested there may be less than what you have experienced as a Christian, that power is clearly the power of God.
Dear brothers and sisters in Christ, these people of Wicca have been terribly slandered by us. They have lost jobs, and homes, and places of business because we have assured others that they worship Satan, which they do not. We have persecuted them, and God will hold us accountable for this, you may be sure, for He has said, "Assuredly I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me." (Matthew 25:40)
Let us, from this point onward, repent of our misdeeds and declare that henceforth we shall obey Christ our God, and not judge others or condemn them, so that He will not have to judge and condemn us for our sins.
~~~
So, go ahead and give me the usual fire and brimstone routine, I don't buy it, nor should anyone else.
If we're going by the Bible's moral standards--and we are, at least in this post--then witchcraft is evil. It is repeatedly mentioned in the Bible, along with a number of things (they are usually in a list of "turn away from idolatry, witchcraft, the magical arts, orgies, etc.").
__________________ Ask me about my "obvious and unpleasant agenda of hatred."
KMC Community Forums
Jan 31st, 2005 06:48 PM
Glad to have a wizard on board!
