First: The punch was clearly amplified by magical power, which was what enabled him to drop Superman. He even says "he's vulnerable to magic"
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Said scene occurs after the image I posted of said two-shot, and Superman was out for the whole next issue. You're telling me knocking out Superman is "nothing"? Come on, h1. You're essentially being a blatant troll now by dismissing what even the hardcore "S" shield fanactics know: Cap can amp his fists and said amps fists do + damage to Superman. It's simple math and logic.
Captain Marvel can hurt Superman with his normal punches. Magic harms Superman more than normal. So a magically enhanced punch from Captain Marvel does...what?
And the "it was just art for deh coolness" argument? You're basically derailing and trolling the thread now.
I didn't see this scan. You posted only the first punch.
Why didn't the first punch do anything? Of course the writer says that magic is one of the reasons why CM is able to ko Superman but that doesn't mean he amped his punches. As far as I'm concerned the writer believes CM's punches will affect Superman because of his magical nature and not because CM CHOSE to amp his punches. This is not in CM's power set but merely the writer showing, by emphasizing on lightning, that it is the magic in him that's actually harming Superman. The magic in CM is shown to harm Superman and not some made up power of CM amping his punches.
With that said, this is a low showing for Superman, he has feats that show greater magical resistance, especially against CM himself and especially when he's not sucker punched or cheapshotted. Superman fights at his best here and he gets uber magical resistance as shown before. Adding in the fact that Superman is stronger, faster, more skilled, and has more powers then he beats CM.
I don't see how CM can get around the HV or being froze to open him up for an attack let alone other advantages Superman has.
He can make his lightning tangible, so no, it's not just for "cool artz".
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Here, Cap actually hits the ground, which causes it to quake with magical lightning, which courses through the giant frog and reverts it back to his mortal form.
So, the way I see it, h1, you can either concede to the point that Cap:
- Can amp his fists with direct magical lightning among other things.
- Said magic does indeed harm Superman more so than his normal punches.
Or ignore the on on panel proof others and myself have posted and basically continue to be a troll and hopefully wind up banned.
That doesn't mean Superman was holding back and only causing pain and keeping his attacks scaled back so that he wouldn't kill him. You can make someone suffer while you are most assuredly attempting to kill them as hard as possible. Superman was referring to wanting Doomsday to feel pain as he was killing him and not instantly die without feeling some pain.
This is the most logical reconciliation of the statement that Superman said he was trying to kill him (reinforced several times) with the statement of his desire that he suffer first. But the former holds more water than the latter. Because of his actions: he went to toss her in the sun right from the get-go while burning his face off and choking the lie out of him. Diana thwarted it and got punched back to Earth where the fight continued and where Superman was still trying to kill her. Unsuccessfully. Don't straw-man us. You're not any better at it then cdtm was either. NOBODY said it was an auto-win.
You all just keeping throwing out red herring nonsense in the vain hopes that positing a completely unextraodinary statement like, "magic isn't autwin" will eventually come across as "magic isn't a major advantage."
It is. Get over it. Fixed. Good job ignoring that Capain Marvel also restrains himself and can kick it up a notch. That's ho the advantage plays out and that is corroborated on-panel. The last two situations never even come into play on-panel anyway but that "no holding back" street cuts both ways.
I thought it was common knowledge that Cap could do that as 99.9% of the forum seems to get that Cap can obviously amp and charge his fists...which is an aspect of his power set.
Lol at the rest of this nonsense.
It's obvious your comic book knowledge is lacking as you didn't even believe CM could charge his fists, and you refuse to flat out admit he can now. Getting your deluded information only from respect threads will probably paint you a skewed picture of a character and tend to believe "Oh, only high feats count! Everything else is PIS".
And I'm pretty sure Superman needs to worry about Shazam bolts and magical discharges of energy moreso than Cap has to worry about HV and ice breath. That's comics 101.
"I see no magic even affecting Superman vs. just the strength of the punch itself."
You just said that captian marvel unamped knocked supes on his ass with no magical amps. Using pure strength. Admit it. Cap is a good challenge for supes and can take some. To say supes will win all the time is retarded. I personally think a seriuous supes takes 6/4 just becasue of versatility. Provided the magical lighting is not involved. In that case supes loses most the time. Good fight either way.
I'm always counting on you to say the most illogical, dumb things possible.
If there's one thing I learned from this thread, it's that Superman trying his hardest to kill Doomsday is to grab him by the throat and shoot some heat vision.
Then punch him back to Earth, eventough he was right besides the sun/.
Then once he gets back to Earth, hovers over an unconscious Doomsday/Wonder Woman in the time Max Lord makes a whole speech, until he/she wakes up.
Superman trying to kill Doomsday, ladies and gentlemen, yet doing the exact opposite of what he should have done, if he'd have wanted him death as soon as possible.
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Now you just got caught. Why not show the first page? It clearly shows him saying Shazam and causing the lightning to strike down.
Good job! Him hitting the ground with lightning affecting the frog is a good start. What took you so long?
So CM can hit with strikes that carry some lightning, ok I agree here.
But I still say that this will add a little more to his own natural punches since Supes has shown great resistance to magic before.
IMO, Supes other advantages (especially HV) would be more of an advantage than the slight magic advantage found in CM's punches.
That's because Wonder Woman wrestled out of his grasp by clawing his eyes and flashing the kryptonite. She was out of position ( no longer with her back to the sun) and Superman needed to get that kryptonite out of play as soon as possible. That involves an immediate no-nonsense punch, not manuevering behind her and trying to get her back into position to continue into the sun. Superman talking and out his reasons and justifications for murdering Doomsday, ladies and gentlemen. Which reinforces his murderous intent.
It isn't Superman's fault that Wonder Woman thwarted his initial murder attempt effectively. It's not our fault that Superman said he tried to kill him, repeatedly.
Thanks for trying to protect Superman by wrapping him in his butt-hurt aura though.
Superman was reacting to everything Diana did, whether he saw exactly what was going on or not.
It's why he avoided the lasso so effectively and purposefully even though Doomsday has no lasso. It's why Wonder Woman was wondering what Maxwell was making him see that Superman'd know to get away from it.
I remember reading this fight, after all, and I shouldn't have to remind you of that detail. I also read all of Superman's own statements that verify his murderous intent.
Wonder Woman wasn't between Superman and the Sun anymore. She wrestled out of position. That's it. He wrecked her immediately after getting his initial toss-to-sun attempt thwarted. Superman failing to murder him/her and verifying on-panel he tried =/= Superman never meant to murder him/her.
I had no intention of hiding or misleading others. The intial bolt is from the vocal Shazam spell, but what I wanted to focus on was the fact that he can make the lightning tangible. Ever wonder why when Cap or Billy shout Shazam inside a building said building doesn't explode? It's because the lightning itself can be tangible and strike with force if he wants it to. Same reason why sometimes the transformation is a single bolt, and other times it's a massive pillar which wrecks the landscape. And in the pages of JSA, Cap alongside Bladam displayed the ability to manipulate the weather and call down lightning without even saying Shazam. The point is, Cap's lightning, whether it be in the form of the Shazam shout or laced with his punches or his entire body when he makes a torpedo tackle is pure magical energy at work. Magical energy which will harm Superman.
Because I don't like having to go through comics and trying to scan pages if I don't have to. And seriously, Cap amping/charging his fists with magical energy is something that seriously everyone who debates here knows he can do. Even now, it's mind boggling that you really didn't believe he could after multiple scans and even more so when you say it wouldn't even effect Superman all that much.
And downplaying CM's magic and the effect it will have on Kal while at the same time highballing Superman is ridiculous.
Nothing suggests that Superman was seeing the Wonder Woman fight aswell, that's ridiculously dumb - all we had was that some of Wonder Woman's motions were translated into Doomsday's movements (thus him seeing Doomsday's bones cutting him when Diana threw her tiara).
To suggest that he somewhat had flashes of Diana's kryptonite ring, so he punched her back to Earth (eventough Adventures of Superman 643, from Superman's point of view, suggests nothing as such) when he was in perfect position to do so towards the sun, is one of the worst reachings in the history of this board.
You know exactly what I said. I did not say Superman saw Wonder Woman. I said Superman was effectively reacting to everything Diana did, whether he saw exactly what was going on or not. Reread the comic:
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Maxwell Lord knew he had to get Wonder Woman's trump cards nullified and Wonder Woman becomes painfully aware that she can't take advantage of the usual drawbacks to brainwashed delusions:
(please log in to view the image) You are wrong, and were shown as such. Move the f*ck on.
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Sweet dreams. Ironically, I feel sadder for you with every word of yours trying to desperately project some non-existent handicap onto Superman (because he tried to kill her... but really wasn't... even though he said so... but wasn't somehow... even though he actually tried....).
There's trying to convince me, and then there's trying to convince yourself. Guess what you're doing?
I never cherry picked anything, I never ignored anything. I'm actually trying to explain it in full. I already said this. Thanks for ignoring what I said. Thanks for initially ignoring the quote in the comic too. Thanks for passing by that quote and choosing to not show it, and also ignore it.
That's funny, because the direction she came from was from the sun. Superman twisted around and punched her back to Earth. Jesus.
Either way, he could have easily punched her into the sun. But that works in line with him trying to make Doomsday suffer...
His memories do work fine with the fine.
But everytime I bring it up, you start complaining something irrelevant about it being his memories. You have no consistency at all.
Yes, because she stopped it. Why would I understand something so dumb?
"Superman wasn't trying to kill her, he was only trying to burn her bones."
Do you actually think about what you write?
Why would you re-quote something where you said he wasn't trying to kill her? You just... you're proving everything I say right. This couldn't be easier. Seriously, you're proving yourself wrong for me.
Let me explain though so even you can understand.
Here's you saying he wasn't trying to kill her IN THE FIGHT:
Here's you saying he tried really hard to kill her:
You see that? That's you changing your mind.
Well boy, I thought that'd be tougher to explain.
Also, lol at quoting you correctly. I've quoting everything you've said in full without cropping anything. All I did was bold the funny parts. Please start reading what you write before you hit "Submit Reply".
How am I hating?
Also lol at Phil saying everything I'm saying (except the heat vision part)... what a hater Phil is.
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Jun 27th, 2011 12:31 AM
