"No, he didn't get back up. He lost the fight. So now a fight is only over when your opponent is dead? Well, that almost happened to Herc."
Check the fight. He got back up and Hulk left. You dont need one death. A ko will do or the opponent not being able to get up to continue. Wich Thor never did.
"Can you actually prove that Hercules was depowered when he fought Hulk, or is that just your assumption?"
Its Marvel cannon. He was depowered in the avengers before that fight happened. In his miniseries in 97, its stated Herc was severly
depowered. His appearances in H4H and avengers support that. Either by statements by other characters or showings.
Also think a bit. Ever saw a fight where Herc punches didnt do - any - effect on the green guy? That alone should give you the hint.
"For the record, Hercules has never come close to beating Hulk"
You didnt saw me saying he wins against a Hulk that doesnt lose his powers in a middle of the fight. You heard me saying they always stalemated at both with full power. Wich is what always happened.
"Hercules feared for his life, and it took all of the Avengers to get Hulk off of Herc. The second time, Herc was beaten near death. Daddy had to save him"
Your thinking on Wonder Man again. Hercules never feared the Hulk. "the second one"? They had more than 3 fights man. A total of 6.
Mortal Hercules was beaten to death. Wich is common sense since he didnt had the strengh to match the Hulk nor immortality to keep him from dying. Nor the stamina and the rest, just the figthing skills he used.
Last edited by olympian on Jul 16th, 2005 at 02:11 PM
And im not saying Hulk writters dont go with the " infinity strengh" they do. Except they dont write him - like that - except special ocassions. And non Hulk writters dont write him like that at all.
This is akin to Wonder Woman being said to be second to - only -Superman in all DC universe by WW writters and yet she is never written that way. Its never showed. You have characters who are writen that way, ironically without that pun but not her.
In all honesty until i see in the comics both cases show without a doubt, i wont assume they are more than a pun.
Its like Wasp saying Herc was the strongest Avenger - ever- you agree?
I dont.
Last edited by olympian on Jul 16th, 2005 at 02:13 PM
"Check the fight. He got back up and Hulk left. You dont need one death. A ko will do or the opponent not being able to get up to continue. Wich Thor never did........"
Goku vs those guys?? he'd kick their asses.....DBZ doesnt have a normal scale, everyone can destroy a planet.....and Goku is the top of the food chain....
No I mean Goku in ssj3/4 is weaker than Superman, Thor, and Hulk. SSJ3/4 Goku phisically isn't strong enough to compete with ethier of them. SSJ3 Goku had a hard time lifting a halve a city (in the manga only, he never showed any feats in the show) and ssj4 Goku Struggled to push a building. He's far from being able stronger, one hit from them and he's gone. Plus he loses energy way too fast.
A few pointers. They all grow stronger when they power up. They have mad durability and they punch tro mountains. They arent liveweights.
About feats. Its exactly in the show when they have more than the manga. More inconsistance as well tho. Goku in the second form of super sayian separated two mountains before charging Buu.
And honestly with the power these guys pack and mad combat speed as skills, Superman doesnt win.
I know that already. SSJ3 Goku was only capable of lifting havle a city, and ssj4 struggle with a building. physiclly Goku won't be able to handle any one them. Thats why I think they whould win. And Supes is faster than any DBZ/GT character.
"SSJ3 Goku was only capable of lifting havle a city, and ssj4 struggle with a building. physiclly Goku won't be able to handle any one them. "
Combat wise they will. They fight faster than regular heroes do. Superman included. Physically speaking they seem high, they just dont show feats considering theyr energy projections alone do all the damage they need.
And Gt isnt canon. You dont need Gt to beat Superman or others, the canon is enough.
SSJ3 Goku is far from even being able to take a punch from Supes, Thor, or Hulk. One punch from either of them and it's over. DBZ manga is canon, and he never showed any feats in the show at ssj3.
And Supes is far faster. If he gets series it's going to end even faster.
How can he be faster when pll weaker than Goku wer already making more than one move in a second awhile back in the very beginning of Dragon Ball? Check in the firsts volumes the fight between Shun and Krillin. They made several moves ( and i mean several ) in a second and no one except the other fighters could follow them. They wrote the book in combat speed.
Other than that, raw strengh means little here. Theyr energy can reach at high levels enough to shake the earth and in some extreme cases was stated enough to destroy it. Not to mention that skillwise theres not even a comparation. Thor is the only with a chance due to his magical powers and battle field removal and seeing how they go to dimensions, Heaven and get back ( especially Goku with the instant transmition ) not even that its going to help. Theyr still faster in combat speed in relation to them.
Theres a good reason why its not good to pick up matches between Dragon Ball and western heroes. Theyr too extreme and wer created to be that way. Sure guys like Superman and Heracles have more in raw strengh, sure they have durability to take theyr hits. But it stops there.
Last edited by olympian on Jul 20th, 2005 at 07:19 AM
Goku at the beginnig of DBZ was only as fast as a car, and you can fight at less than sound speed and know untrained or weak person will be able to see or keep up. IT is used as a teleport. There punches and kick are far less than what Supes is going to be throwing and sometimes the energy blast they throw the less damage. And Supes uses his speed more often than you think.
SSJ4 Goku could out race an energy blast from Omega Shinron, Supes is far faster than them. Supes can use Heat Vision on him and the match will be over, since he had trouble fighting Nova Shinron. Supes been fighting for years and got trainnig from Mongul, Batman, and Wonder Woman; so he's not an amature in fighting, Goku needs help in all of his big fights. Thats why I think Superman, Thor, and Hulk whould win.
And yes Hulk is the strongest because of his unlimited strength.
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