You gotta start using the quote tags, brother. Your posts are hard to read.
That last sentence is strictly opinion. Totally subjective, and has no bearing in a debate.
Metallica has every right to change their music, although they were making a "comfortable living". Most would agree that nothing needed to change. To give fans that don't approve of a change in structure, Radiohead or Metallica one, such a malicious send off is weak. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The fans that were rabid about the bands original sounds are the ones that MADE THEM WHO THEY ****ING ARE. Right? Radiohead sure slammed the door on people who paid to see them live, bought their albums, bought their merch, and maybe had a little bit of a hard time coping with the senseless "evolution". That's just unprofessional. It's their music, but they are NOTHING without fans.
Well, thankfully, I'm not "people", since I never told them what to do with their "craft". That $aid, I rarely que$tion their motive$, a$ they are blatantly obviou$. The fans indeed have a "right" to an opinion, the right to speak freely about how they feel in regards to the betrayal they experienced, and whatever else goes along with change. That's "it"? They cut their hair, went soft, lost their direction, drop the only metal influence of their band in Jason, shitting on him for a Rap-Metal approach to "vent their frustration". Then, they are naive enough to cash in the hopes that people will want to see a bunch of Thirtysomethings b!tch about the rigors of fame, how they don't get along, how sad it is to be rich, alcholic, bi-sexual intravenous drug using rockers. Write a ****ing book. It sells better, and doesn't make you look like capitalist pigs. Granted, book sales wouldn't amount to the same cut as a movie and subsequent DVD release, much less pay Hetfield's $100,000 a month therapy bills, which he admitted to Zakk Wylde paying.
No entitlement, just betrayal, desertment, lack of explanation, loss of respect for themselves and their fans, and complete and total loss of musiccianship. "St. Anger", again, is Metallica proving they hitched a ride into 2003 to the music scene in a drug enduced haze, and have no clue where they are.
Personally, I don't give a shit about the guys. They're old news. A blip on the musical radar. I'm anxiously anticipating their screamo album, though.
Last edited by Cory Chaos on Feb 25th, 2005 at 01:14 AM
Well you claim they're nothing without their fans but all the fans that left Metallica after the One video and all the fans that left Radiohead after OK Computer are quite clearly of no consequence coz the bands showed those people with a delusional sense of entitlement, just how important they AREN'T. Nobody made Radiohead BUT Radiohead. Just like nobody MADE Metallica but the people in it. If it aint broken don't fix it is right. There's nothing wrong with my bedroom but that doesn't mean there's no reason to redecorate.
Don't you think you're overreacting by making claims of betrayal and deserting? Come on man. Losing their hair matters shit, it's actually irrelevant. If their haircut bothers you then I suggest you find another hobby. Went soft? What do you mean, went soft? They are talented musicians and if them knocking off the booze and drugs keeps them around for a little longer rather than adding them to the countless list of rockstars dead from overindulgence, I'll take that chance coz I like having them around. They made a sub par album in St. Anger but I'd rather them keep putting out music than being dead.
Jason Newsted never fit in as it is. They've never had anything astounding in the bass department, Jason was nothing special. He wasn't even there when they put out their best album.
Lastly, they haven't lost musicianship. They are still an amazing live band, I saw them in December of 03 and they played all their stuff just as good, it was amazing. You shouldn't confuse ability to make stellar albums with the ability to play a stellar concert. The reason why I still like them is because they DID give us amazing music and they DO still play amazing shows. Until they grossly sell themselves out blatantly, which they haven't yet done besides your DVD debate (which is arguable depending on whether you care), I will continue to support them.
First and foremost. Albums don't sell themselves, and unless Metallica have been buying all their albums, they didn't get where they are today on their own accord. Not that most bands would want to be in their position, but lets apply that to the "Black Album" era, shall we? That's principal economics, right there.
While I personally detatched myself from music a few years ago, I know plenty of Metallica fans over the years that do indeed feel betrayed, and rightfully so. Like I said, they have a right to evolve, but not everyone's going to necessarily understand why they did it, especially when their fans are happy with their music. Now, I don't see Metallica as being happy with their music, personally, so what I'm claiming isn't so far fetched.
Cutting your hair is more or less a universal sign of change. To deny that is totally naive. Was it a coincidence that they became a complete alternative band when they re-emerged? They became video whores when "Load" debuted as well. Coordinated outfits, coordinated publicity photos. What the **** happened to the Metallica that wore band shirts in their press photos? We get this pompous asses in suits and sunglasses, smoking cigars, rubbing it in everyone's face. "Hi, we're Nu-Metallica!" By soft, compare "Dyer's Eve" and "Until It Sleeps". The latter, being too soft to even screw my girlfriend by. Seriously.
Even if Jason's musicianship never factored into the band, his influence did, and again, another "coincidence" I suppose, when the band decided to change direction again, they drop him for Mr. Out-of-place-Suidical-Tendencies, Rob. As for their supposed questionable selling out. I don't know what constitutes selling out any more than me suggesting their lack of respect for fans overall, the self important, naive movie deal, re-releasing "Gold" versions of their albums, etc.
Like I said, I couldn't care less about the guys. Someone asked when they went South, I shared my opinion, backed it, and will continue to back it until Metallica can explain their deterence for themselves, and I don't see that happening anytime soon, beyond a "safe" explanation of wanting to "evolve", when all they've done was latch onto trends.
Well we can go round and round about the fans making the band. It depends on the band. If you are in a band with the intention of being famous, fans are essential. If not, they aren't. Tool got together when they all had full time, well paying jobs. Purely because they wanted to play music, they didn't play to get signed. Adam Jones (guitarist) was a special effects guy on T2 and Predator, hardly on the breadline. Their fans didn't make them, they did. Metallica formed because they wanted to play music. Without Metallica, fans would have no albums to buy.
I know a guy who has loved them since the beginning and still does. Seen them live 13 times. He doesn't understand why they changed but he sees that they haven't done anything wrong either, which is a key point.
As for the being soft, I think THAT comes down purely to opinion. They weren't as heavy but I don't think they were by any means soft. Secondly, the way they dress or look doesn't matter shit to me. Whether they play guitar in Gucci or a band shirt, the song sounds the same.
What it comes down to is the fans wanting explanations, doesn't it? I don't want one because to me they haven't done anything worth explaining for. Made dubious decisions yes, I don't totally agree with the making of the DVD but it's their choice. If they started selling clothes, I'd be on your side.
look look look...we can finish this debate with the simple statement...metallica are ****ing pish...they used to be good...now they are shit...thats the fact of the matter
maybe its arthritis...maybe they got a bit to influenced by crap music...maybe they just dont care that what they are churning out is totally bollocks
but if you dont like it...dont buy it...thats what i do...i still have all their old stuff and i still listen to it now and again...i dont listen to the new stuff because i dont like it...big deal...
alpha centauri does like it...does buy it...good for him...thats his taste...
Metallica started going bad after the loss of cliff. Though the black album was there most popular, it was also their most formulated. They sold out with the black album. I'm not saying load or reload was bad, but it wasnt what once was. As for St. anger, i wouldnt even wipe my ass with that.
__________________ "If you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything" -Twain
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"look look look...we can finish this debate with the simple statement...metallica are ****ing pish...they used to be good...now they are shit...thats the fact of the matter"
Not while I can disagree it isn't. Fact is provable.
Oh and why doesn't everyone stop assuming what Cliff Burton wanted? He died, bad stuff but that's the reality of it.
The black album was their last good album (imo), though load and reload had a few good ones. Why did they change? Because they got old, you don't feel it as much the more years pass. The urge to turn it up so loud it hurts doesn't roll around as often. Wait and see. It's even harder for a band to stick with it, it has to be their life while you have more freedom with it.
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Metallica havn't gone bad....they've just changed to adapt to newer music, fair enough the old songs are the best but the new stuff on St Anger is good.....the days of 10 mintues songs are over.....
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Last edited by Darth_Lucifer on Feb 27th, 2005 at 05:31 PM
there are long songs on St.anger up to 8 minutes but the difference is that the songs are bland and has no taste to them.
it seems to me people are trying to convince them selfs that metallica are still good. Maybe they are but they are not showing it on thier music nowdays.
i dont want another master of puppets i just want another good album.
and i really cant convince my self tha tst.anger is a good album, it is one of the worse albums i have ever heard!
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Feb 25th, 2005 01:11 AM
Ace!
