k AC as i have already said she has done the air0sucking thing before. she did it to jean grey and jean couldn't use her powers and was doubled over grabbing her throat. she also did it to magneto. and what makes dooms shield so different from the other four that she couldn't possibly get into it??
Gender: Male Location: I'm not giving my name to a machine
Still, unless the jar has a bunch of water in it, how is a storm going to form inside it? Is she magically going to make it moist inside the jar so the clouds can form and the rain can fall? Is she going to summon the moisture in the air to pierce an air/water tight container?
__________________ Originally posted by -Pr- a great big penis.
Water vapor. It's in all air, even the driest deserts. How do you think Clouds are formed? She just has to make the top of the jar cold, the bottom warm, force the moisture to condense and voila, mini clouds. And that's assuming the jar is airtight and she really can't force more moisture into it.
Gender: Male Location: I'm not giving my name to a machine
If it was just out in the open air, that would work, because it would draw the moisture in from the surrounding air. But there's only so much moisture inside a jar and condensation doesn't create water, it collects it.
__________________ Originally posted by -Pr- a great big penis.
Clouds are water that has gotten high enough and cold enough to condense into something slightly thicker. Rain is what happens when a cloud gathers so much water that it stops being light enough to float and starts falling. She couldn't make a huge cloud in the jar, but there is water in all air, even air in a jar. It's just a matter of making it really cold near the top of the jar.
Hahaha chill out man. Storm creating storms in a glass jar is pretty far fetched. She manipulates the weather, she doesn't create it. She has done the forcefield thing, but not to Doom. Been over this. I'm not sitting here ignoring you, I've acknowledged and countered every point you've raised. Don't be pissed just because you're not doing what you set out to do. Why can't her powers work inside his shield? When did I ever say they can't? I said she hasn't done it to Doom, so don't assume she can. Just because she's done it to 3 different shields doesn't mean that the 4th different one will be the same. Why doesn't it count? A forcefield created by the smartest man on Earth is, in my opinion, gonna pack more punch. Just like a gadget by Richards is gonna be better than a gadget by Spidey.
Again with the fog crap, jeez. Storm is a liability when throwing debris around, she can't control it, she's clumsy with it. Where did you get this idea that random debris breaks down energy blasts? It's not a bullet that can be stopped via a riot vest, it's an energy blast capable of hole-punching a mountain. Hahahahahaha, she could dodge him on foot? One of the best marksmen on Earth? No she couldn't, she isn't Spider-Man. Such a ridiculous statement. You're essentially saying she can dodge gunfire and energy blasts with reflexes, she cannot. Nor does it take her a "few moments" to conjure up large things, you should know this. Being quick on your feet against a bunch of shits like The Morlocks and having Doom fire energy blasts at you are very different things.
Yes, around her. What part are you not getting? She manipulates the weather, not create it. She cannot pull air out of his lungs for two main reasons: A) She isn't that powerful, you are going by Demi's theoretical eventuality there. B) Doom's suit is sealed. What?
Tell me how a SMALL whirlwind of SHORT duration that swirls DUST AND SAND is gonna reduce his visibility to zero. Please. Short answer: It's not. She can't whip up an F5 in minutes, don't quite understand why you're struggling to prove irrelevant points.
She sees weather patterns before they happen, like a meteorologist or the computers they use to detect the weather. She doesn't walk around with cosmic awareness sensing every and all type of energy. As for your dodging analogy, ha.
Storm HAS to dodge his shots (which is arguable), or she's dead. Doom doesn't HAVE to dodge a storm. That's what you're missing. That's the essential factor here. You're keeping her in the game by saying she'd dodge. She wouldn't, she's not Spider-Man and even then that's under the assumption he's firing small blasts. If he whoops out the concussion beams he did when fighting the New Mutants, no amount of dodging is gonna help.
By overcharge I mean overly power, don't twist my words to suit yourself. You knew perfectly well what I meant.
Wind is not weather coz it's not a substance, air is the substance. When it's moving at high speeds it's called wind. What are you trying to prove? If you're going by that ridiculous "she's sucking the air out coz air is weather" then she could do that to anyone. She hasn't because she can't. What are you not getting? Storm controls Earth's weather patterns as a whole. She cannot remove air from someone's lungs and EVEN if she could, won't work on Doom. So the point is null and void.
I have seen what you said, don't back yourself up by assumption that you know isn't true. I've read every single part of your posts. She can't make him pass out. The man walks around in space for many hours, MANY. He did so in the Secret Wars saga, countless FF's, New Mutants. What do you want? You are clinging to that point of cloud cover. So? Let's go with that. Doom in shield, her in cloud cover. She can't hit or affect him, she can't see him. He can't see her but he can hit and affect her. She has no protection, only distraction. A dust devil is not going to block his obscurity. Sand? When did the fight take place in the desert? Where are there piles of dust in the street anyway? Exactly. Think before you post.
Yes but you are going by that 4 hour theory. Which is detrimental to Doom when it shouldn't be, because it's not true.
He has been in situations with Adam Warlock when he has had to fight instantly, with no prep. Did he win? Yes. Storm hasn't got a chance. You are insinuating he is useless without prep, he is far from that.
Is Doom beatable? Of course he is. By an X-Man? Hardly. If Adam Warlock SURPRISED the man and couldn't beat him, how is an X-Woman going to do it? As I have proven, as many have proven. You're not proving us wrong. Just struggling to prove as many invalid points as possible even though, if correct, they still don't give Storm the win.
Because he would not lose to Storm, why are you not understanding it? You've gave us strategies, yeah so? You are struggling so hard to prove that these strategies are successful without even realising that not only are the unlikely to succeed, but even if they did, she wouldn't be in any greater a position. Look, Storm Vs Dr. Doom realistically. Without all of your devil's advocacy and desperation to prove irrelevant points, she's just not going to win. Not totally because he's Doom, because she's not good enough.
She can't though. She manipulates, she doesn't create. She's the weather version of Pyro.
Yeah or unless you can control and create weather phenomena in any space, no matter it's size. And Storm can.
How do you know all this? She can't. She's never done this, you're trying to prove shit that doesn't matter. You are overboosting her power to prove your own point. We're all comics fans here, avid readers. It's no coincidence that you are the only ones who believe she has this kind of power.
More to the point, here's food for thought. Ever ready the comic where Rage joined the New Mutants (or might have been Avengers) and they fought Doom? Doom smashes them all (and this included Nova). Then Rage went nuts and Doom said he activated a defense mechanism so that if anyone or anything touched him, it'd wipe out the surrounding. He then stood there picking em off. He could do the same with Storm, it's one of the many REAL options he has. Not one's we just want him to have.
Can you get any more desperate than this? Honestly? Jeez.
Gender: Male Location: I'm not giving my name to a machine
And a matter of making the droplets heavy enough to fall. And making the air inside the jar thin enough. Though she wouldn't be able to remove air or condense enough water. Since it's just a jar.
Dude, AC, you keep standing up for Doom while I get to the bottom of this jar business. What is little known about me is I am a master of the jar. I have a +2 to jars ring for smurf's sake.
__________________ Originally posted by -Pr- a great big penis.
This just proves how desperate it is for Storm supporters here. We don't have to resort to going SO far out of the way with science to show how Doom would win. His simplest way is a shot to the head. Simple.
They have got 43 pages of science, physics and unlikely, out of the way theoretical eventualities just to avoid the fact that Storm is no match for Doom.
So the lightning that flies out of her hands does so because they turn into clouds? Yeah. She creates and manipulates. It's easier to manipulate, as in work with what's already happening, but the building blocks for any weather pattern (air, moisture, energy) are all around her. She just has to assemble them, so to speak.
Actually, the only counter to the argument that she can work within his forcefield that you've presented is that it wasn't exactly the same as the other times she's done it, thus they probably can't. Ockham's Razor. Out of the two possibilities -- A: That, because she has used her powers inside a variety of energy shields and protective fields, she will be able to do so once more; or B:That, in spite of her past successes, Doom's forcefield has some undefined quality that makes it uniquely impervious to Storm's power-- which of those two sound simpler? Neither are certain, but Ockham's Razor states that, all things being equal, the simpler of the two explanations for any scenario is most likely correct.
Yeah, again with the valid fog argument crap. Why wouldn't it work? He can't hit what he can't see. Storm doesn't have to be amongst the debris to control the winds whirling it around. I got the idea because plasma can only burn through so much matter before it dissipates. The same with most kinds of energy I can think of that Doom would fire at her in short blasts. With a thick cloud of fist sized rocks in the way, any blast he fires is going to be considerably weakened if it makes out at all.
She can dodge punches and weapons from superhuman fighters (whose livelihood was dependent on their being able to win) thrown at point blank range on foot. Dodging blasts from Doom at a distance doesn't seem like too much of a stretch. Of course, this all assumes he can even find her, which I don't think he could.
Actually, she creates "weather" too. She can create winds strong enough to fly on and lightning blasts from her hands.
She can pull air out of his lungs, since it's air, and thus part of weather phenomena. A)No, I'm going by feats she has performed in the past and saying she can duplicate them against Doom. B)It can't be completely sealed, or he would only be able to spend four hours at a time in it. Even if it is sealed, she can work within his suit anyways.
Storm's weather creations don't exactly adhere to the definitions. She can create a dust devil and sustain it longer than it normally would last. I... have you ever been in any kind of sand or dust storm? It REALLY f*cks up your visibility, and those are just the natural ones. If you don't beleive me... well, you'd have to ask someone else who has been through one. Suffice to say, they are going to seriously screw over Doom's aim.
Then how does she manipulate storms that are already happening? Simple, she can see the energies involved. It's not cosmic awareness. She can't look up and see what kind of rain is falling on the Shiar homeworld. It's a very earthbound awareness. As for your ha... uhh... kay.
Of course he doesn't HAVE to dodge the fog or dust devil or sandstorm. He could just stand there and be blinded if he wanted to, I suppose. I don't know how large said concussion beams are, but since you call them beams, I'll assume they travel in only one direction at a time. If she has him blinded by fog or a dust devil, she isn't just going to stand there laughing at him. She knows he has guns, so she's going to get out of the way of potential blasts. He can be firing in 360 degrees, but it won't matter if she's a quarter of a mile up in the air.
Overly power, as in many hundreds of thousands of volts is an unusually high power level for his suit? I know that's what you meant. My point is, if that's a power level considered to be impressive, it's not much compared to a bolt of lightning.
Wind is actually a weather phenomena. But you are correct that air is the substance. I'm not sure what we are disagreeing on about that, but okay. She can do it to anyone, but she generally doesn't HAVE to. Unless you're surrounded by a magnetic or telekinetic forcefield of your own creation, lightning bolts of varying strengths are enough and other weather events are enough. She doesn't controlt he Earth's weather patterns as a whole. Hell, she only covered one continent when she was berserk after Doom screwed around with her. Her power works on a localised scale for the most part: she creates a single tornado, she freezes water under her opponent's feet and blows him over, she shoots lightning from her hands. She specializes in working in relatively small areas, not worldwide effects. Going inside Doom's forcefield is just decreasing the area she has to control a bit more.
Actually, that wasn't directed at you. Look at the name of the person I was quoting. I know you're reading my posts.
Fine, throw out a random number of hours. It doesn't matter. It still means she has plenty of air to add to what she pulls out of his lungs.
Was he fighting someone who stopped him from being able to inhale? Doubtful.
Hey, maybe Adam Warlock should have come to Storm for advice. I've already told you how this X-woman is going to do it. My points are correct and they give Storm a chance at victory.
I understand what you're saying, I simply disagree. I don't feel like I'm struggling, but okay. If these strategies did succeed, Doom is down for the count. At least work on admitting that. If he can't see her and can't breathe anymore, he can't win. The best he can do is retreat and prepare for a rematch/revenge.
You're the one who says real physics shouldn't apply to comics. So why should only stories YOU deem realistic be considered on this forum?
Dude, go LOOK IT UP if you don't believe me! That's the quick and somewhat crude version of how clouds are formed.
No, condensation makes them heavy enough on it's own. Thinning the air isn't as important as heating the lower air to force the water to rise.
Yeah, man. Who wants creative explanations and tactics when a shattered skull would suffice. Man, what's wrong with us?
Did you not read the issue where Cannonball joined the X-Men? He met Storm for the first time and in the generic way, he asked "What do you do?" She said "I can control the weather". She controls weather, she isn't a creator of it.
You say that if she works within his shield she'll either A) Move the air around so he can't breathe it in which wouldn't work because his suit has it's own air supply anyway. B) She can remove the oxygen from his lungs. She can't. Manipulating and moving air within the context of weather is one thing, removal of oxygen from a human body protected by a sealed, impenetrable suit and a forcefield is quite another. Which is what you say she can do, she can't. Even if she COULD, it wouldn't get her the win.
He can't hit what he can't see, correct. She can't hit what she can't see, even if she could see him, she couldn't hit him. He can still hit her, fog or not, because she has no protection, only distraction. If Storm can see him or not, and fires. It's not going anywhere, Doom can still hit Storm in the fog, it's just less likely. Hahahaha, so you are saying that if Doom fires, she'll create a tornado with bits of rock in there and his energy beams that can blast through mountains, will be stopped dead? Hahahaha. He tore apart his own castle with the beams contained in his suit, bits of rock aren't going to do anything, quit the desperation.
Oh this just gets better. This magnificent bullet dodging ability she has served her well against Spider-Man, Shadow King and the famous brick didn't it? Not to mention all the other times she's been beaten up. You are being so out of the way. She can't conjure up all this distractive fog in seconds, do you actually know her powers? Why are you covering Doom with stipulations such as distance and distraction yet Storm has the miraculous ability to fly anywhere she wants? Doom flys after her. Then what? All it takes for Doom to win is one shot. Are you saying Doom is incapable of hitting Storm with a blaster? No he isn't. He is MORE than capable, and that's just the SIMPLEST way he can win. You are hiding behind "He couldn't see her, she can dodge". Which is ridiculous. You're trying to win the arguement by putting Storm on the defensive, which only helps me.
She doesn't create the winds, she manipulates it so that it carries her. Try again. She doesn't CREATE the lightning, she manipulates the weather to fire it. You keep chickening out and resorting to the air pulling/weather theory, it's ridiculous man. She cannot pull oxygen from a human body, we're talking about Storm for christ sakes. Doom's 4 hour time limit is inaccurate, he can and has spent more than 4 hours in his suit. It's sealed, it has its own air supply.
You can't just say "she can work within his suit anyways". Why can she? Because she did it in a glass jar? How preposterous. You think that because she did some (dubious) techniques through concentrating heavily on a glass jar, that she can manipulate inside Dr. Doom's sealed, ultra complex body suit WHILE trying to survive? This gets funnier by the second.
When did this fight take place in the Sahara? Yeah, shh. More to the point, I don't have a forcefield do I? I have to shut my eyes and put my hands up. Doom doesn't.
She sees the weather patterns and alters them, hence the name Storm. She doesn't see all ambient energy, or all energy in general. She detects weather patterns. This is irrelevant. Trying to save yourself again by going off-topic. This has become more about a discussion of her powers than it has Storm/Doom. She can't beat him. I know it, you know it. So you and others resort to dragging this whole thing out on a debate of can she/can't she. When it doesn't even matter if she can or not.
Dear oh dear, surely you aren't that oblivious. How is the "dust" and "sand" (of unknown origin) going to hit him if he's in a shield? Storm flies up, so what? Doom flies up. There, countered. She can't cover the world in fog, wherever she does it, Doom can move while maintaining visibility because the stuff isn't touching him. This is just desperation now, so I'm gonna let you down gently.
So what? Lets go with the extremely unlikely event that she hit his suit with lightning. What's it gonna do? Demi says "Override his circuits". I doubt it. Why? Because as mentioned by Vic, Doom can control his circuits alot better than Storm can, she can try to override them and he'll override her efforts. She cannot do anything to beat him. She simply cannot.
The fact that every post Storm supporters make is one of irrelevency and points that even if proven, are inconclusive, just shows how desperate it is.
Gender: Male Location: I'm not giving my name to a machine
Then that just proves working in a confined space cuts down her power. And that making a storm inside a jar is impossible. Except for teleporting and magic.
__________________ Originally posted by -Pr- a great big penis.
KMC Community Forums
Mar 13th, 2005 04:24 AM
I've already told you how this X-woman is going to do it. My points are correct and they give Storm a chance at victory.
