But, Dave doesn't consider that Bobs responsability. That is between Dave and God. And can you guys please stop talking about me going to hell. My name really is David.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Don't look too far into the example, Dave dying was representing a soul going to hell, Bob living represted a person going to heaven. Your name's David? Oops, sry. Either way, just thought I'd point that much out.
You are absolutely right. Alot of Christians have failed the faith and God and will go to hell. The Bible says in that day (when the Lord has returned) many will say Lord, and He will tell them that he does not know them and they will go to hell. But many of us who accepted Jesus and try to live by Gods word and do what we are suppose to do will make it. Jesus gave the example, he went to a place, teached, healed the sick and left. Some became followers and some not. Today it is still the same way, but people think that they have to force or convince the world to become believers. Salvation can only happen through faith. Further more the Bible teaches that Gods mercy is great and that he does not want anyone to perish and that he lets the sun shine upon believers and unbelievers. I think many believers forgets this when they encounter unbelievers. Yes, the world is suppose to see the love of Christ who came as the Light of the world, in us.
It's a fact, salvation is acquired through faith and faith alone, not good works.
I agree with most of your statement, but for Christians, it's a duty to teach the Gospel and to aid in the salvation of others. And yes, some Christians tend expand on their duties and take them too fare, but they are simply trying to help.
God is merciful and loving, hence Jesus Christ. I agree, but persons refusing Jesus as their Lord and Savior, will be eternaly seperated from God. Let's not lose sight of that truth.
Excuse my ignorance if I took your message the wrong way.
Yes the only way to God is through accepting Jesus Christ as the only savior and acknowledging Him as Son of God. Refusing that will bring you eternal separation from God as you said. What I meant to say is that not all people will accept this and they will answer for that one day, but we as Christians must not alienate people by being judgemental but rather by bringing the gospel and telling people about the way to salvation and showing them Gods love. The rest is up to them. God is merciful, so should we be. We look at people and tell them quickly how wrong they are and that they are going to hell, rather than telling them why they cannot afford to live without Jesus in their lives. We must also beware that our own lives does not contradict what we "preach".
The Axe To The Roots HELL AND HEAVEN
BREAK DOWN THE WALLS OF RELIGION
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This world just doesn't make sense. You look outside and this place appears right at times, but look real close and you find there is nothing of value here, except people. All that your eyes can see is passing away. Can you ever find peace in this world if your hope is in it? Where can you look and not find crisis? Thomas quoted Jesus as proclaiming, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you."
Behold religion closely and you will find turmoil within their ranks, as well. Squabbling, divisions, differences and unspeakable crimes have torn apart the walls of religion, exposing their man-made foundations and ideas. Often times, we see hurting people who are looking for life's answers, trapped within their visible and invisible walls. Hurting people do not need religion in a crisis; they need love and truth. The fact that there is any crisis at all within religion's walls should say to us that its' doctrines might not line up with truth. Have you ever considered that? Have you ever examined your christian beliefs and thought to yourself, "These seem good, but I can't help but feel there is something wrong or maybe even missing?" Could it be a small voice within you whispering the truth in your inner most being? And if so, could it be this same, small voice causing you to desire what is true, by allowing you to finally see what is false? Have you succumbed to believing doctrines you were taught by others? Are you even open to hearing what is true or has your mind been made up? Has what you heard within your heart come into conflict with the teachings you have received from others, but you decide to follow others beliefs instead? Is the basic christian doctrine true as it is portrayed by the religious and believed by millions today?
Those are just a few questions that I have come to ask myself while trying to discern what Jesus was teaching us. When people discuss hell, they seem to have varying beliefs. What I find to be interesting is that many cannot comprehend any of their loved ones spending eternity in hell, yet they believe in it. My brother often tells me, "If my family and friends are not going to be in heaven, then why would I want to be there without them?" If heaven is eternal, then it is available now to all and never has been unavailable to us. And if heaven is eternal, then it is true and what is true cannot have an opposite, such as an eternal hell. Have you ever run into a person who tries to convert you to their religious beliefs, usually through the fear of missing heaven and ending up in an eternal hell? If you have, then may I suggest questioning them about their beliefs regarding hell? There are too many contradictions taught to people about hell and it may not even be recognized when the error is plainly exposed! All we need to do is follow our train of thinking through to the obvious conclusion and it begins to become clearer that these doctrines just cannot be correct. I will assist in pointing out some errors through the following questions, while you work to figure out the truth for yourself!
Question Twenty Two: If hell is an eternal place of torment, why did Jesus set the captives free from the time of Noah...the same people whom the flood waters were meant to destroy? (I Peter 3:18-20)
Question Twenty Three: If hell does exist eternally, why would Jesus possess "keys to hell and death," knowing that keys are needed only to unlock something? What need would there be of even having keys if they are not needed to unlock? If the keys were only used to lock something up for all of eternity, why wouldn't the keys be destroyed, if no longer needed? (Rev. 1:18)
Question Twenty Four: Let us assume there is an eternal hell and some we know and love will be there in torment, while we are in heaven. How could God wipe away all tears from the eyes of us in heaven if we have lost loved ones in the fires of an eternal hell? Could we ever be at peace or do you suppose God would just erase our memories of those we knew and loved, but have perished? Could you ever forgive God for doing that to someone you love? (Rev. 7:17;21:4)
Question Twenty Five: If it were true that once a person finds himself in hell he is trapped in a prison of torment without hope, why would Jesus state that "the gates of hell shall not prevail?" (Matt. 16:18)
Question Twenty Six: Why did Bible translators use the word "eternal" in the scriptures when the Greek word properly translated means "for a set period of time" (an age), properly meaning hell has an end? And why are the greek words Hades and Gehenna translated as "hell" in the King James Bible, when Hades simply means the place of all departed souls, good or bad (the other side of the grave), and Gehenna was just a local trash dump outside of Jerusalem? (Mark 3:29; Jude 1:7)
Question Twenty Seven: Some teach fire in the scriptures to be of the devil and part of his torment upon the godless in his future dwelling place called "hell." If fire is of the devil's hell, why would Jesus say, "all will be salted with fire?" Why does the writer of Hebrews state, "Our God is a consuming fire?" (Mark 9:49; Heb. 12:29))
Question Twenty Eight: Many believe very few people will be saved and make it to heaven. How could Jesus say he would draw all men unto himself? Why did Paul say in I Corinthians, "all shall be made alive?" (John 12:32; I Cor. 15:22,28; Col. 1:20; II Cor. 5:19)
Question Twenty Nine: If you believe only some people will inherit heaven and eternal life, what percentage would be saved in your opinion? If all are not saved from hell, wouldn't that mean Jesus and God failed in their plan to "destroy the works of the devil," making the devil victorious if even one perishes? Who is more powerful, God or the devil, and which one failed since both could not be victorious? (I John 3:8)
However, if Hell remains a place to be empty, the mission of Jesus Christ becomes irrelevant. But Jesus Christ came anyway. Why?
If Hell remains a place to be empty, then Hell itself is irrelevant. Why mention Hell in scripture in the first place?
If Hell remains a place to be empty, then God's commandments are irrelevant, because they lack penalty to impose authority over them. Why the endless pursuit of soul salvation?
Your convictions create more problems than solutions regarding scripture.
It seems clear to me, that you have an Eisegesis mind set. Persons with this mind set manipulate scripture, and place them in inappropriate context to mold their own philosophy or belief system. This is dangerous.
The Holy Bible was not written to support any particular way of looking at truth. By its very nature and subject matter, it transcends such restrictive notions. God wants to teach us His way of looking at truth.
"For my thoughts are not your thought, neither are your ways my ways," declare the Lord. "As the heavens are higher then the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9
We must guard against doing significant violence to a passage by trying to force it into a rigid way of thinking, a preconceived view of reality, or certain constructs the Holy Bible itself does not support.
Excuse my assumptions about you. I could be wrong, and ceretainly don't mean to judge. I'd like to hear from you again.
Well, like I said before, The Jews never believed or taught about a place called Hell. That would make the OT and NT inconsistent with each other. Hell as a burning place of torment was FIRST mentioned in 150 A.D. by Justin Martyr. It grew and grew with the helpings of the Roman church. This is how the Cathedrals were paid for...You know your history don't you? Look at how it grew even to this day..Read some of Johnathon Edwards sermons or his book "In the Hands of an Angry God?" It's enough to make you puke!! Children wreathing in pain for eternity...And people are preaching that today! Hell in scripture is called Sheol, pit, grave..etc...Gehenna was a place outside Jerusalem where garbage was dumped. It was used as a metaphor...Jesus talked about death as sleep..If someone would of preach this "Hell" to the NT followers, they would of called you a pagan, because that is where the belief came from. AND YES, you are right...Jesus came to show us the way, not to scare the hell out of us..AND yes, the scriptures WERE edited in such a way as to keep you in line with the Roman church...Jesus didn't have anything to do with it.
As stupid as it sounds this little pic. below was even found in a sermon on what some really think happens in hell....Honestly! Pushing a bolder up a hill only to have it fall down again...for eternity...YES, this is hell.
Attachment: sisyphus.gif
This has been downloaded 27 time(s).
Well a persons perspective on Hell is wishfull thinking. It's an opinion.
Nonetheless, honestly, my knowledge about Justin Martyr is limited. And so, you have forced me to redirect future study on the topic.
A gentlemen I work with provided me with an A&E movie about the first 2,000 years of Christianity after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. And in it contains numerous consiracy theories. The movie is unbias, never taking sides with any issue. It simply let's history speak for itself. I don't recall the name Justin Martyr being mentioned, but then again, the movie is about 6 hours long and may have overlooked it. It's very detailed, but dry. This is definately a movie for history buffs (ha ha ha)!
But anyway, I thought you believed that God refuses to send mankind to Hell?
Last edited by ushomefree on May 16th, 2005 at 11:48 PM
KMC Community Forums
Apr 27th, 2005 06:48 AM
Poor Dave.
Oops, sry. Either way, just thought I'd point that much out. 
**living it up in the out-back**
>>>johnny
Depp<<<
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