yeah Ive experienced some of the elderly die too, but thats life so what can one do. Hopefully they didnt feel all alone the last remaining time the lived though
Allow me to be the devils advocate (a saying meaning "be the bad guy") Let you know the shorter end of the stick.
But why do you do this finiti? What urges you to take part in such charitable acts? You shouldn't care, I mean what have they done for you? Is it a greater good, do you recieve something in return? What good are they in such years of old? You've seen elderly die, you would know how such a burden is lifted from society. So why finiti? Why?
So, are you implying that he does these things to get into heaven? What is it with religious people thinking they have the market cornered on living descent lives and having compassion for other people? Maybe finti does it to make these peoples lives a little better, without thinking of himself. That's a very interesting standpoint though, because it illustrates that not all christians do something out of selflessness. They perform all these charitable acts for their own benefit, for the chance to get into heaven. How selfless is it in the final analysis?
If you're trying to imply that he does these things because god is somehow telling him to, then that makes little sense as well. That implies that god is using him, while not enlightening him to the reality of the situation.
Not that I'm trying to speak for finti, but that's the impression I get from your question.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
O but on the contrary, if you have read the responses of finiti, it has lead me to believe that he is not christian. And so I was asking him, "if you don't believe in God, than why bother with a clean life?" Make people happy, have they ever tried to make you happy? I'm asking whats the end in view. Why bother. I'm not saying that selflessnes can only be percieved through christians. I mean heck look at Christ he was a freaking jew (sorry God, just to prove a point). I mean, you cant get more self giving than that. I was just asking that what do you owe your consciouse if that's in theory the voice of God.
And if you ever get the time, look up what it means when someone says, "Allow me to play devils advocate here."
why? simply because these are people I have known since I was a little kid. They are part of me growing up, they didnt have to do thing for me. Its not like scratch my back and I`ll scratch yours. I dont need a reason to be nice to people, the reason why I do this things is because its just the way I am. I was brought up to take a concern for our fellow human beings, what good are they in such years of old? Does it matter what age they have are they less of a human and less worth just because they are old. These old people are the ones that build my country to what it is today, because of them I live in a free society, the least we can do is show some bit of gratitude, not just store them away in a home for elderly.
Basic line I do it because I see what joy it brings them, and to me that is reason enough
that is correct, I am not a christian well this is the problem with many christian people, they cant understand beyond their faith.
You see I do not do this for me, I do it for them
First of all, I know very well what it means to "play devils advocate."
Second, I have a feeling that you have a hard time understanding that living a clean and respectable life isn't reserved for christians alone. In fact, you illustrate my earlier point that many christians(yourself apparently) only perform acts of charity or kindness out of a self centered, self serving place. Why? Because they fear god and want to get into heaven.
Unlike the notion in your head, maybe people live descent lives out of an inner charity and kindness that you don't understand becuase you're just trying to make the grade and get into heaven. That doesn't need to be a god given trait. Compassion did not come from god.
What do we owe our consciousness? Nothing. What do we owe our fellow man? Nothing. It has little to do with what we "owe" and more with what we want to "give".
But, to satisfy your theory, I give very little my fellow man. I don't participate in food drives, I don't work at homeless shelters and I don't visit old people in my spare time. Hell, I wouldn't recycle if my room mate didn't dig trash out of the garbage can.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Last edited by Devil King on May 4th, 2005 at 12:00 PM
You still don't get it. Either of you. There is such thing as the good atheist, and the BAD catholic. But everything has AN END IN VIEW. What you wish to achieve after an action is preformed. I am questioning you with these simple counters to prove a point:
"Everyone is kind. Every act with an intent. We do things to achieve a greater good, or a greater evil. From which we choose from defines our character. If we live a life of virtue, truth, morals, the ideals of right and wrong, than we live them for a reason. For Christians and Jews and Muslims it's not fear of God alone, but rather for the love of him as well. Buddhist and Hinduism do it for enlightenment. And the good athiest does it because he knows what's right. Those who do it for a greater evil do not do the good, but avoid it. They partake in the bad as a good. For anyone who is of sound mind and body would never act for the greater evil. So for us to act for a greater good, we must BELIEVE in one."
And it saddens me to hear Capt_Fantastic, that you wouldn't even help your own brother. YOu remind me of a horrible quote, but an ever so true one:
"The man that eats alone, dies alone. But he does not die of hunger."
Define what you mean by "greater good". It seems to me that you are basically saying that if you do something that could be considered evil by other, but you believe you're doing what's right? Maybe we are all born good, but become evil because we don't do for the greater good? What the hell are you saying?
Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. But, why does there have to be an end result in living a good life? Maybe I'm just a nice guy. Maybe I put a smile on someones face simply for the sake of making them smile. I don't understand what it is you are trying to say...so why don't you take pity on us and let the rest of us in on your secret.
You have quotations around your paragraph. Who are you quoting?
Thanks, I have plenty of friends. I couldn't have friends if I was a "horrible" person. I would do anything for my brother. But you are not my brother, nor is the guy that lives down the street. Trust me, you thinking I'm horrible means exactly shit to me. I never said I was a bad guy that went around spitting on babies. I just don't go out of my way to help people I don't know, unless it's something like an old woman has dropped the contents of her purse on teh ground in the midlle of the parking lot. Sure, I'll bend down and hel her. But, if that same woman is starving in a homeless shelter, I'll never know because I don't go to those places.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
[QUOTE=3760120]Originally posted by Capt_Fantastic Define what you mean by "greater good". It seems to me that you are basically saying that if you do something that could be considered evil by other, but you believe you're doing what's right? Maybe we are all born good, but become evil because we don't do for the greater good? What the hell are you saying?
Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. But, why does there have to be an end result in living a good life? Maybe I'm just a nice guy. Maybe I put a smile on someones face simply for the sake of making them smile. I don't understand what it is you are trying to say...so why don't you take pity on us and let the rest of us in on your secret.
You have quotations around your paragraph. Who are you quoting?[/QUOT]
Doing something for the heck of it, is boild down to "Doing something." If you do not understand what is meant, than quite shooting in the dark. You may do something with no intention in mind, and still have strived for a greater good. Putting it smiles on peoples faces because it feels good is an end in view. A greater good comes out of it by becoming a better person.
It wasn't to be taken literal, and I never called you horrible, don't put words in my mouth. I was simply saying, that for once you bring down your "I could care less what you think, and about everyone elses opinion" and TAKE the time to help out the community, you'll feel good inside too. If you don't want to feel good inside, fine, do it because it's right. But let me make something clear, your turning this simple curious questioning into a point and execute. If you really, and truly look at the first time I had asked finiti "Why?" and look with your reason, not your eyes. You might, just might, see what I was coming across. But never assume anything, especially with me. Because you'll come out making an ass of yourself. And that, was to be taken seriously.
I don't assume anything about you. I know only of you what you illustrate about yourself in your posts. As for what I care about, no I don't care about your opinion, or of the opinion of people I don't know. I do care about my friends and family, their opinion matters to me a great deal. And I do like to feel good on the inside, but I don't have to feed the homeless to feel good on the inside.
And the first question you asked finti was "You do all these good things, but why? WHY? And then once he answers, you say he doesn't understand the question either. Does he not understand the question because it has nothing to do with god in the end?
And all the "right" things I do are because they're "right"...not to make myself feel better.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
"Doing something for the heck of it, is boild down to "Doing something." If you do not understand what is meant, than quite shooting in the dark. You may do something with no intention in mind, and still have strived for a greater good. Putting it smiles on peoples faces because it feels good is an end in view. A greater good comes out of it by becoming a better person."
I'm not shooting in the dark, I'm trying to understand what the hell you're saying. And I never said that I made someone smile to make ME feel better, I make someone smile to make THEM feel better. I don't need to become a better person, that's why people like you are around.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Funny, I seem to be having the ill effect right now...Your getting close, but your still not grasping the point.
Do not take this the worng way but you reminded me of another quote of mine, "Those who don't give a shit. shouldn't be given a shit about." Not my personal philosophy, but one that I can coup with.
Well, hey, I know you give a shit about your fellow man, but I don't give a shit about you. So, your quote has some flaws in it. And, once again, you keep quoting people...but not telling us who said it. Perhaps you fancy yourself a philosipher?
I might not be grasping the point because you don't have one.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
KMC Community Forums
May 3rd, 2005 02:03 PM
