Actually, no need to be Christ like in this Forum. This is for discussion purposes and not for proselytizing faith.
It doesn't matter to me whoever I would address a post. I can make other topics other than Catholic related concepts like the Mormon's Polygamy and the Jehovah's Witnesses use of 'Jehovah' as God's real name. It's just so happened that there are more topics to be discussed which are related to Catholic beliefs.
It is called VENERATION!!! I DO NOT WORSHIP MARY NOR THE SAINTS. IF THE CHURCH SAYS "YOU MUST WORSHIP MARY." I'LL SAY "NO WAY MAN!!!"
I have answered your question countless times. And no I do not recognize Dulia nor Hyperdulia. One because my Catholic Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) does not recognize them. second because if it there definitions mean to worship some one other than God, than I don't do it. And third, just because I'm Catholic doesn't mean I have to recognize everything of the church. Sometimes there wrong. I guess what you fail to realize is that the church is run by humans. Therefore it is bound to make mistakes. I don't believe in the information you are presenting to me, therefore I am not responsible for following it. I take the time to read and learn about my faith. So I don't have to fully rely on the church. That is why I can say "No I don't believe in Hyperdulia and Dulia, because that goes against church principle and God's law."
So, there you admit, Prince. The CATHOLIC CHURCH does not teach the whole truth.
May I remind you that Christ's Church teach otherwise. The Church to become the true Church of Christ must have ONE Spirit of Doctrine, Baptism, and Judgment, as the Church have ONE Lord Jesus and ONE God. And Christ's true followers follow the true Church Doctrines.
Thank you for being the second Catholic (next to Jedi Priestess) here to admit that Catholic Teachings are INCONSISTENT. and no need to follow in context... or whatever.
I rest my case with you. And I ask no more questions for you.
Why are you fighting so hard to run the Catholic church into the ground. All organized christian religions are hypocritical and inconsistant. What's your issue with the catholic chruch? Why don't you spend more time trying to convince yourself that your denomination isn't bull shit, rather than telling catholics their world view is wrong. Tell us what your denomination is, and we'll start picking it apart. Group activities are fun.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
I am not fighting. I am just upholding the true Words of God. Yes, all organized Christian religions are inconsistent... But the true Church of Christ is not.
Sorry, I am not a member of any denominations you are thinking about.
I am a member of the Church which Christ has founded.
You pulled your support from a CHRISTIAN and not catholic doctrine. It says in church Doctrine that Mary Assumed into heaven. Body and Soul. No one other than Christ recieved such a gift. I'm not sayin worship her like Christ, for God gave her that gift to ascend into heaven the way she did. But such a favor with God deserves a higher form of respect. But not a higher form of worship. And Besides, it wouldn't surprise me if the Catholic Church is inconsistant with some of their teachings for, like I said before, it run by humans. And we are a flawed race. Wake your case up, for you only proved my point.
I've always found that the "church of christ" was much akin to church of England. Both assume which ever stance is the quickest way out at the moment...and have absolutely nothing to say about the world. "Church of Christ" is really just a synonym for "I have no beliefs beyond the bible" aka 'what I've been told'. I've run across many hundreds of "church of christ" patrons and not one of them has ever been original, consistant, or up for any fun. As Eddie Izzard said: "Death or Cake? Thank you for flying "Church of England. Next."
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
The Church which Christ has founded was consistent with the Laws of God. Christ bears the Words of God and therefore should be obeyed and followed. The church, which claims to be Christ's followers yet remains inconsistent with sound biblical doctrines, is NOT a true Church of Christ, and therefore is destined to the lake of fire, where there is gnashing of teeth... day and night.
The Assumption of Mary is not found in the Bible... so the Assumption, therefore, is truly an assumption.
Ahhh, but the Assumption of Mary was witnessed by many people, those who wrote what they saw, and believed since. But like you said, it's only an Assumption. Named, btw, by the catholic church. In other words, they recognize that it may not be true, however the respect owed to mary is still sound. Notice I said respect, not worship.
"There will be many that will come in my name, and speak not of Truth. Wolves that hide amongst the lambs. Ready to strike those who fall pray to their lies. Amen, amen, i say to you. As long as you follow the shepered, you will not be harmed."
As I said, Assumption of Mary is not sound Biblical. It is part of the Church's APOSTASY.
And according to the Catholic Church authorities and officials - the Church WORSHIP Mary through Hyperdulia. This is considered as the Church official doctrine.
And Prince, there is no use of defending the Catholic faith since you are not one of its faithful followers.
And the verse which you quoted above was fulfilled in the Church Fathers when they took over the Church in the second century - they were the "wolves in sheep's clothing". They were the ones responsible of introducing Pagan practices into the Church. This is what we call - the Great APOSTASY - which was prophesied by Christ and His Apostles.
In other words: SPIRITUAL ADULTERY.
Which was committed by the "woman who drinks the maddening wine of her adulteries".
The woman bearing the title:
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH
All Christianity has its roots in the Babylon the Great...So to get out, you must loose Christianity and become spiritual, which is what the REAL Christians were.
Listen, I am young, and abitious. My life within God, and God within me. How I do this is my way alone, however through this I follow God's CATHOLIC CHURCH. I will agree, we've tried many things in the past. Many of which weren't good. If it's any consolation, your right. The church does mess up. And sometimes it's too stuborn to recompense. But my faith will not waver for it is sound in God's foundation. He said
"Peter upon this rock I shall build my Church, and the gates of Hell will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of Heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." (Mathew 16:18-19)
We believe this to be the Catholic Church. I believe it to be the Catholic Church. For life through logic, will only make you logical. Life through prayer will only make you prayerfull. But life in balance with the two, is a life closer to God. God gave us logic and he gave us faith. So that one day you may see him throught this balance. However in all you conversations, replies, accusations, and statements I have never once seen you use the term "faith" in any of your replies. Because all your answers are sought through logic. If you want to contradict this, prove me wrong. Bring me up a reply that you made that follows the theme "something I don't know, is compensated y faith." Because Ican assure you, you will find little to none.
Matthew 16:18-19 alone was misunderstood by the Catholic Church authorities themselves. They didn't even recognize who was the "rock" being mentioned there. SCRIPTURAL BLINDNESS, as what I may call, as willed by God to those who tried to change the truth and deceive His people with tricks... so they will never know the truth.
You are young and so am I. I was enlightened, you were blinded.
When the Bible say: "Come out of her!" ... then you must.
If you ignore the call. You have no FAITH. You are DISOBEDIENT.
TO BELIEVE is one thing. TO OBEY is yet another thing.
As Jesus said to His followers: "And those who believe me, if you obey my commandments you are truly my followers."
And IGNORANCE of God's and Christ's commandments is CONDEMNABLE. Hence, FAITH of an ignorant one DOESN'T matter.
The rock, is Peter if you think i'm "scriputal blindness". Which means the church is not a thing, but a PEOPLE. How is it that you would call Mary a prostitute after everything she has done for you and me? I am not ignorant, as you can probably tell, but am not banking on it, through the posts that I have replied to. And Christ said that the gratest commandments where love of God and love of neighbor. Everything else is detail. Now don't get me wrong the journey for knowledge is a long and arduous one, but with great rewards. However you have past that thin line from "adventure" to "obsession". Be happy that i'm on the same side as you. People think, believe, and act differently than others. As long as we follow one God, and do his will, what is there to change? Perhaps you are looking too much into the details. Christ said "my burden is light and my yolk sweet." St. Francis said, "Spread the Gospel of the Lord to all people. And if necessary, use words." You seem to be rubbing against the edges there don't you think. And besides, you didn't prove me wrong with my final statement. However I highly doubt you are educated enough to prove logic through faith. Because if you have attempted, you have sadly failed.
No. Peter is not the Rock or the Foundation Stone of the Church which Christ has built. Read the verses carefully and ask for the guidance of Holy Spirit and if it is God's will, He will uncover your eyes which were blinded with human tricks. Peter's name literally means "rock" but it doesn't necessarily mean that he was the "Rock" where Christ has built His Church.
And sorry if you misunderstood my post. I am not referring to Mary when I mentioned "Prostitute". I do respect Mary... and honor her... and acknowledge her as "Blessed"... because she's the mother of Jesus Christ and she was a faithful and obedient (not ignorant) servant to God. But I do not honor her as the "Queen of Heaven" and has "power which wields over the one who is God". This proclamation by the Catholic Saint is an act of blasphemy in the sight of God - I may add.
Since the Catholic Church was founded in a WRONG Foundation Stone... let the Bible's proclamation be fulfilled (already fulfilled actually).
"Fallen, fallen is Babylon the Great!"
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of the Abominations of the Earth
The time is still approaching (and is very near) when we will all witness the destiny of the "woman who drinks the maddening wine of her adulteries".
Misunderstanding cleared. However, I too honor Mary. And never have I recieved an answer to the question "do you worship Mary?" With a "yes". And this is the CATHOLIC CHURCH I go to. Perhaps you are misunderstanding the quote from the bible. And let's get something straight. Never have I been "blinded" by tricks and slight of hand. God has always aluminated my path, "for through him do I gain strength." Maybe you should remove the beam in your eye, before pointing out the splinter in mine...
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May 21st, 2005 03:35 AM
