Lazer that is a very good theory, but then there is no reason as to why Anaken beat Dooku in ROTS because he unleashed his anger. It could have been the excaption who knows. Now for the fact of Mace bringing three other jedi is because his orginal plan was to arrest someone. Think about it a cop is not going to go alone to arrest a dangerous criminal. So he brought more jedi thinking that Palpatine would peacefully turn himself over. Not the case now it isn't till after he kills the other jedi he wants to kill Palpatine.
For the Yoda battle scene please refer to my above statement because i do feel it can be argued a draw, but there is evidence that supports Yoda being stronger. Not for Palpatine being stronger though. I still state that only the actual fight and not the otcome or the previous scenes can be included.
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Last edited by Newjak on Jun 5th, 2005 at 11:41 PM
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
Are we sure he unleashed his anger? I am not sure he did so until he had already cut his hands off. The move to disarm (haha) Dooku was more finesse than agression....
But even if he did, we have to remember that Dooku was also uding anger, so it would balance out.
I could be wrong, but I really think that even if I am the symbolism of Yoda and the lightning and falling is still correct.
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
I was planning on expanding the idea and making a more thorough post in a thread of it's own about the symbolism of aggression but then I saw a use for it here
hmmmmm...interesting....something that hadn't occurred to me before is that Dooku STOPS fighting...I think that is the ONLY time this has happened during ANY of the movies....he was expecting amnesty from Palpatine, but still, hands or no, he should have known that it was a fight to the death...
Palpatine was just a damn bastard and he's absolutely no match for Mace and Yoda. Palp was scurrying backwards when he was disarmed by Mace. Next, Palp got "shocked" when Yoda blocked his escape door in the senate.
Well, you all assume Palpatine called for the clones. And some say it's cheating. Oh well. I guess when Palpatine called for backup then, he wasn't cheating?
Lazer, you forget. Palpatine was surprised that Yoda came to the Senate building. He seemed shocked that Yoda would dare to go into "the lion's den". Remember, Anakin TOLD Palpatine that he was going to be turned in. So Palpatine EXPECTED the Jedi to fight him.
And trust me, Lazer. As much as Yoda is EXTREMELY powerful, he doesn't have pure intellect. If I had to pick a Star Wars character to help me out in an academic match, I'm pretty sure it would be Palpatine. Or Chewbacca (for some odd reason...)
And Mawi, Palpatine took over the galaxy. Mace ended up dead and Yoda ended up in exile.
The difference is, Lazer, you do not KNOW if Palpatine had Mas Amedda call for the clones while they were fighting. You ASSUME they did. But they did not show up until AFTER the fight. And if Mas Amedda was going to get the clones, he probably would've been in a hurry. If memory served, he WALKED out of the room - in NO hurry - and left Palpatine and Yoda to fight.
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
Mas Amedda walked out of the room before Yoda even showed up; he didn't even know Yoda was there. I have never said in any of my arguements that Palpatine called for the clones. What are people saying the signifigance is?
And Newjak, there IS evidence of Palpatine being equal OR stronger than Yoda in the Force.
Considering that his ability to see into the future WAS - while not perfect - far greater than Yoda's. Not to mention, Palpatine was as agile as Yoda was. Not to mention that Yoda did NOT always reflect Palpatine's Force Lightning.
No one has still said jack about that. I guess Yoda's fan boys are trying to neglect this error. I like Palpatine and all. But he did NOT own Yoda. I will admit to that flat out.
But I still have yet to see Yoda's fan club - save for Lizard - admit to Palpatine being powerful and NOT being owned by Yoda.
I repeat. Yoda did NOT always reflect Palpatine's lightning. Palpatine was talking to Yoda and blabbering about how powerful he was. Yoda should've been prepared. But he wasn't. So Palpatine SLOWLY raises his hands and fires Force lightning. Yoda looks SHOCKED - hear that Lizard? Yoda isn't always brave and fearless. He looked SHOCKED, like "oh no!". And he got sent flying.
Palpatine SLOWLY raised his hands. He fired Force Lightning. Yoda looked frightened and got blasted into the wall. He was temporarly knocked out.
Palpatine arrogantly stated his superiority as Mas Amedda left the room. Yoda woke back up, frowned, hopped to his feet, and Force pushed Palpatine over his chair.
Palpatine got RIGHT back up.
But I guess lightning is more lethal than a Force push. Even one wielded by Yoda.
Gender: Male Location: Massachusettes, United States
no you are right about Mas.... but I still don't see why it matters to either side when he got the troopers. All that matters is Yoda could hear or sense them coming.
Not all of my debate is directed at you, Lazer. People say that Palpatine cheated by bringing in the clones, and that Yoda would've killed him. Well, let me say this.
1. You do NOT KNOW if Palpatine called for the Clones. HE didn't, he was too busy fighting. Mas Amedda sure didn't look like he was in a hurry to call for backup, so I doubt HE did either. The Redrobes were still unconscious (no clone or stormtrooper can mess with Yoda, lol).
2. The clones showed up AFTER the fight.
3. You have no proof - no statements or otherwise - to logically deduce the clones were called. After Yoda fled the building, the clones arrived.
Regardless. Palpatine and Yoda are all by themselves in terms of power. You all can say Mace Windu beat Palpatine, lol. I am a firm believer that in lightsabre combat, yep, he probably did. But Palpatine could be a very good actor (he DID deceive the galaxy, you know).
But in terms of actual POWER, I doubt Mace would last long against Palpatine. Obviously, the finale of that battle displayed as much.
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Jun 5th, 2005 11:37 PM
John 3:16 ^Thanks Ast Rofan^
