Of course Yoda knew the troopers were coming. After he fell, it was all over because it's not like Yoda could have gone back up there and continued. Yoda is good, but he can't take on Palps and the troopers.
Don't judge the battle based on Yoda not returning after his fall. That is not a loss. That is just smart thinking on his part, and I doubt many Jedi's if any would have made such a good decision not to go back.
Palps definitely caught yoda off guard at the beginning of the fight, but Yoda made a brilliant come back and actually started winning the second half of the fight.
I think if you were to judge the fight:
Round one - Palps wins it with the force lightning that knocked Yoda down.
Round two - Yoda gets the edge in pure saber combat forsure. Palps was surprisingly good, but Yoda is clearly superior. That's why Palps went to his force powers instead of continuing the saber combat.
Round three - Palps wins this one for aggression and displaying some damn impressive force powers to toss those senate pods so easily
Round four - Yoda takes this round for pure defense. He showed to palps clearly that although his force powers are impressive, he can't possibly beat yoda with senate pods and force powers.
Round five - YODA wins this round and takes the edge in the fight, becuase of the way he tossed the force lightning back at palps and sent him flying back.
You can't fault yoda for being 3 feet tall and 50 pounds. He took the worse end of the fall, nothing more.
So three rounds to two for Yoda. He wins a close split decision
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I don't think it matters. Most of the arguements state Yoda left because he fell (quoting the screen play) "several hundred feet," and was too beat up to fight any more, and especially because his lightsaber was destroyed.
If we do want to talk about clones, two points can be made:
A) Maybe Yoda forsaw them coming
B) It would make sense for Yoda to assume that troopers were coming all along and that he only had a short time to fight. That's why he didn't go back for the Senator after; he knew he'd be too well protected by all the troops. He was able to attack because Sidious' rule had just started and he was not expecting to be attacked.
Also, if he forsaw the troopers coming or if he assumed they would, he'd have to consider he had no lightsaber. Pretty hard to defend against a blaster with no saber!
Round Five: Draw. Yoda threw Palpatine back. And in return, Palpatine's Force lightning energy sent Yoda back (farther). Lol in a sick way, it's Yoda's own fault he didn't kill Palpatine.
Vanquish, Yoda was smart, yes by not going back. And I'm also pretty sure he'd be the only Jedi to do something like that. Simply because Palpatine would own all the other Jedi who tried to fight him.
Actually, I'm fairer than you, I think. So if I were fair...
Round One: Draw. Palpatine electrocutes Yoda and sends him flying, proving to Yoda that in Force Powers, Palpatine is greater than most Jedi. Yoda goes down. But gets back up and Force pushes Palpatine, showing that Yoda doesn't care if Palpatine is superior in Force powers, he's still going to fight.
Round Two: Draw. Yoda goes on the aggressive in lightsabre combat, and he proves that he might be slightly better than Palpatine. But Palpatine - who can easily own other Jedi - is forced to go on the defensive (something he never even did in his fight with Mace). But neither best the other. Yoda simply expresses more use of Ataro than Palpatine does of (whatever his lightsabre form is, lol).
Round Three: Draw. Palpatine gains the higher ground, and his mastery of the Force is at the VERY LEAST equal to Yoda's, by ripping pods out two or three at a time, and chucking them. Gravity, combined with Palpatine's possibly superior Force skills, forces Yoda to dodge all of these. But, Yoda is strong too, and throws one back at Palpatine - who dodges it.
Round Four: Palpatine goes on the aggressive, forcing Yoda to go on the defensive. Palpatine is the one generating the Force power here, so it is he who controls the fight up till he gets too close. Yoda, using all his strength (this isn't EASY for EITHER of them) reflects the Force lightning back on Palpatine who is sent flipping over the pod. But, Yoda cannot control Force lightning whereas Palpatine CAN. Yoda is sent flying farther. Of course, physically he is weaker than even Palpatine, and loses his grip. And he falls. A long...long...long...long...way.
Yoda, Palpatine, Dooku, and Mace seem to be the very top duelists and Force users in this.
Force Powers:
1. Palpatine - Duh.
2. Yoda - Duh.
3. Dooku - He took out Obi-Wan (again) with pure ease.
4. Mace - You know he's got 'em. But he didn't USE them.
Dueling:
1. Yoda - Duh.
2. Palpatine - took on Yoda and POSSIBLY faked his defeat with Mace.
3. Dooku - took on two powerful Jedi (twice) and defeated them.
4. Mace - Mace is an excellent duelist. But it says on the Star Wars site that Dooku has bested him in combat.
We are pretty close to an agreement actually. Both feel the duel was extremely close, and both sides displayed incredible powers and skill that no Jedi or Sith can even come close too. Palpy would kick the living shit out of any other Sith like Dooku or Maul, and Yoda would own any other Jedi. The two of them fighting eachother was the coolest star wars battle of all (although it was a little short in my opinion)
I absolutely stand by Yoda and all the Jedi's. However, I can accept Palpy's power. Honestly, I think Yoda is just slightly better then palpy in combat, making Yoda the strongest force in the galaxy.
However, I do believe that palpy's obvious skill with manipulation and hiding his identity from Yoda when they are in the same room with eachother brings him up to equal with him.
Yoda is better in combat. Palpy is almost as good, but the slight discrepancy in combat is made up for in deception skills.
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Yoda shoulda bit sids just for kicks!....I love seeing a funny Yoda .....he should have done something like jump on Sids back and bite his ear hopped away and did his little giggle he did in ESB when Luke first met him...
Man this is nuts ... I've seen it twice .... the way I see it ... firstly this whole thing about Darth Sidious being this great unbeatable sith is rubbish ... he is extremely powerful ... but in duels with the two best jedi he was clearly bested ... Mace Windu completely kicked his butt, force lightening and all ... if it wasn't for Anakin stepping in, Palpatine was a defeated sputtering dead duck, helpless at the end of the point of Mace Windu's purple sabre ....
As for his fight with Yoda, he showed a lot of bluff and bluster ... but Yoda took all he had to offer and gave it back to him worse ... and Palpatine knew that he was outclassed, which is why he tried to run ... in fact, it boggles me how this argument can even go on for 34 pages, when clearly in the film, Palpatine tries to run from the fight, and Yoda stops his path and tells him : " If so powerful are you, then why run ? " ... when you have a scene like this, where can the debate be ? You only run from a fight, when either you are too much of a coward to fight man to man, or if you know that you are outclassed and if you carry the fight on,then you are going to lose.
It was made amply clear in the film that the dark side is NOT more powerful ... in all departments,whether force powers, or lightsabre skills or whatever, Mace Windu and Yoda were both clearly superior to Palpatine .... and it was filmed that way because the fact that the dark side is NOT the most powerful, is a central theme in the STAR WARS story ... how can ya'll miss all this when it is so clear ?
Palpatine eventually came through inspite of his inferiority to the two most powerful jedi warriors, through a combination of circumstances, chicanery, deceit, and behind the scenes scheming - AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, BECAUSE OF THE WRONG CHOICES MADE BY ANAKIN SKYWALKER, THAT LED TO ANAKIN'S OWN FALL FROM GRACE, WHICH IS WHAT THIS PREQUEL TRILOGY IS ABOUT .... if you tell me that as a master of deceit and subversion, Palpatine had it over on the whole jedi council, and the senate, then I would have no arguments on that score ... however, don't tell me that Palpatine was the equal in single combat, of Mace Windu and Yoda .... because with all his dark side powers, he was clearly second best to both of them ... and the director made this amply clear in the film, in both the duels ... in a man to man, single combat situation, Palpatine was inferior to both Yoda and Mace ... and this was contrary to what most people expected before the film was released ... I've been part of debates like this WAY back around the time episode 2 was released, and everyone seemed to think that Palpatine would eventually be shown to be more powerful than any jedi including Yoda .. but this would mean that the darkside is the more powerful, that evil is more powerful than good, and what Yoda instructed Luke in Empire Strikes Back was wrong .... which is contrary to the central theme of STAR WARS ... it IS essentially a good vs. evil story and there is no doubt that Lucas is very clear that the Dark Side is NOT the most powerful ... it is the easier and more seductive path to obtain great power, but that will not make you invincible ... and in this movie he made it clear, that although evil carried the day in the end, through a combination of wrong circumstances, wrong choices, and subversion ... that does not mean it is more powerful ... in a one on one fight, the master of evil Darth Sidious was outclassed ( by Mace ) and shown to be inferior in power and skill ( by Yoda ), to the two most powerful jedi.
Last edited by master harmax on Jun 8th, 2005 at 09:36 AM
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Master Harmax I been saying that from the start but I knew the debate would continue due to sithluvers not being able to admit defeat of their master....lol
Palpatine was holding back so Anakin would save him, so his turn to the darkside would be complete. Palpatine probably foresaw this before he'd meet up was he told Grevious that he would have a New Apprentice one far Youngaaa, and Mooore POWERFUL and that was before the deul.
Yoda... No doubt, Yoda bested the Emperor and the battle ended in a stalemate. Done deal.
who was saying that palps is hundreds of years old because i am sure that at the end of ROTJ he is 88. And also the reason that Mace beat palps so easily was because of his fighting style which is supposed to be super effective against people using the dark side of the force.
Ian McDiarmid said that, in an issue of SW Insider. someone posted the page somewhere... he said palps is actually very, very old, but he has been masking his appearance
anyone have that magazine page?
ok here's how I see it
YODA > PALPS > MACE
yoda likely wouldve killed palps, he ran b/c he was the last hope basically. yoda owned palps with the lightning
palps let mace win, to turn anakin to the dark side, which I think shows through his acting like a weak old man (pweeeeease doh killl meeeh, ihhh too weeeeek)
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Last edited by neo313 on Jun 8th, 2005 at 07:07 PM
Yoda stopped fighting because he honorable and he lost his lightsaber he couldn't fight anymore. It's like a Samurai when he loses his Katana Blade. If that is taken away from him, then he has no life... Thier soul is carried within thier own blade. They life by it and they die by it, if you lose your weapon you are pretty much better off dead.
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Jun 6th, 2005 10:23 PM
John 3:16 ^Thanks Ast Rofan^
