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Iceman (full potential) vs. Superman
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Sir Whirlysplat
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OK and as a molecular biologist I have an unfair advantage big grin


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:41 PM
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xmarksthespot
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I'm more bigger picture neural anatomy and physiology. Which usually isn't as applicable.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:44 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by demigawd
I don't get what you're talking about - I already told you where the mass goes - it doesn't go anywhere. Iceman is transferring his consciousness from one body of water (in any form) to another. It's independent of physical mass, regardless of what Superman does to it. Why is that so hard to understand? Unless you'd like to explain some fallacy I'm missing, and something tells me you won't...


OK so you want to get asked another question, which is the same, your saying the atoms that make up his physical mass have all become H2O.
So what level does this happen on? You can use either Superstring or Quark interactions to attempt to explain your answer, but I would love to know where all the energy releases from a 90Kg Mass changing state at this level go. And its hard to understand because I just don't see these changes taking place big grin

Keep the faithrock

Stay in School rock


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:46 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
I'm more bigger picture neural anatomy and physiology. Which usually isn't as applicable.


I see, where did you do your degree, I did my degrees at Nottingham, Southbank and Goldsmiths, Univ. of London.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:47 PM
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demigawd
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Are you referring to teleportation (which is psionic) or state conversion (which is simply a function of him speeding up or slowing down molecular speeds until it shifts state)? Either way, the mass is static, so your question about "where the mass goes" is flawed.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:50 PM
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xmarksthespot
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
I see, where did you do your degree, I did my degrees at Nottingham, Southbank and Goldsmiths, Univ. of London.


Still doin it. In the land of the Hobbits and whale riders.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:52 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by demigawd
Are you referring to teleportation (which is psionic) or state conversion (which is simply a function of him speeding up or slowing down molecular speeds until it shifts state)? Either way, the mass is static, so your question about "where the mass goes" is flawed.

gibberish

ok so he no longer has any human form thats what your saying.......... right............. so his teleportation is psionic so how exactly does the water molecules take on this mental aspect where is the coherant thought stored wheres the physical form generating these psions big grin Where does the energy for these state changes come from and go to?
Flawed my arse big grin

Keep the faith big grin

Know gibberish rock


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:55 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Still doin it. In the land of the Hobbits and whale riders.

A New Zealander hey big grin well good for you perhaps you can explain as psions are subatomic molecules that are interacted with by the brain, where Bobby's brain the transmitter as it were is now?


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 08:57 PM
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xmarksthespot
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
A New Zealander hey big grin well good for you perhaps you can explain as psions are subatomic molecules that are interacted with by the brain, where Bobby's brain the transmitter as it were is now?


If I could I'd be a millionaire due to my subsequently acquired nobel prize. If I knew I wouldn't post it cos then I'd end up still a poor student since no one would know its my theory laughing out loud


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:02 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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OK so bobby has no physical form yet some how his brain interacts with psions to control the state of liquids without any visible input of energy. Am I the only one who sees smething wrong in all this big grin

Keep the faith rock

Stay Whirly rock


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:05 PM
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demigawd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
gibberish

ok so he no longer has any human form thats what your saying.......... right............. so his teleportation is psionic so how exactly does the water molecules take on this mental aspect where is the coherant thought stored wheres the physical form generating these psions big grin Where does the energy for these state changes come from and go to?
Flawed my arse big grin

Keep the faith big grin

Know gibberish rock


The fact that he's no longer able to assume a human form lends credence to the thinking that there is no longer a human form to assume, so yes, that is a valid conclusion to make regardless of your sarcastic tone in making it.

You're arguing (or questioning) from a false assumption. In a world where psionics is a valid and real science, it's not simply purely a function of synapse and impulses. Psionics is such that human consciousness is in a form separate from the physical laws that guide it here. In the Marvel Universe, for example, consciousness is hosted in the Astral Plane. That's how devices like Cerebro work - it locates minds on the Astral Plane, where human consciousness is hosted. Bobby's consciousness is hosted there, and from there, it's able to choose water molecules anywhere on earth as a repository, or rather, avatar for that consciousness.

Your ability to accept that is predicated on being able to view psionics as a proven science, which you would have to do in Marvel. Based upon that, it's perfect acceptable to see how teleportation would work for Bobby.

The energy for the state changes are also psionic. Bobby wills them to vibrate or slow down, and they do so. It's not a natural occurrence, which is where you're getting stuck. The catalyst is a command, not environmental.


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Last edited by demigawd on Jul 1st, 2005 at 09:07 PM

Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:05 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
OK so bobby has no physical form yet some how his brain interacts with psions to control the state of liquids without any visible input of energy. Am I the only one who sees smething wrong in all this big grin

To go further the water is an avatar laughing out loud
Astral plane/psions are interchangeable laughing out loud
And you can speed up and slow down atoms using subatomic particles without an input of energy laughing out loud

gibberish

Keep the faith rock

Stay Whirly rock


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:09 PM
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xmarksthespot
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Ah but Superman's biofield somehow manages to seal of each individual cell entirely? How do ions pass in and out to generate action potentials and restore/maintain resting potential. Superman dies because his own biofield prevents him from generating nerve impulses.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:09 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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The old outside of physical laws get out clause has been invoked by Demigawd who has been trying to use scientific arguments.

laughing out loud


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:10 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Ah but Superman's biofield somehow manages to seal of each individual cell entirely? How do ions pass in and out to generate action potentials and restore/maintain resting potential. Superman dies because his own biofield prevents him from generating nerve impulses.


he still has a brain to psionically control the energy produced by his field subconciously, receptors, nerves and secondary messengers to act as stimuli to respond to cahnge etc.

Apples and Oranges

Keep the faith rock

Stay Whirly rock


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:12 PM
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demigawd
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
The old outside of physical laws get out clause has been invoked by Demigawd who has been trying to use scientific arguments.

laughing out loud


Was that your goal all this time? Of course it can't all be explained by conventional science. But that doesn't mean we can't scientifically explain things. Psionics is a valid science in Marvel and DC, and if that's how it's been stated that thought is formed and used, then that's what we use in conjunction with scientific arguments. I don't get your point.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:18 PM
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xmarksthespot
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Every cell in his body though. The lens cells in his eyes should be heavily cataracted by now cos if nothing can pass through the biofield then gap junctions are useless. Neurotransmitters get trapped between the cell and biofield, if things can't get out. No neurotransmitter reuptake if things can't get back in. Superman is literally brain dead.


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:21 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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Well Suzuki, when he suggested the idea of psionics, "indicated" that a brain was needed to intereact with psions big grin The astral plane I would assume would also need a brain to interact with it big grin So "Where is Bobby's brain?" no its not a B movie or a joke about 12 year olds getting boners, its a question, Supes has one to interact with psions big grin Unless Psion means something different in Marvel? (like ill thought out description or poor understanding of science and concepts).

Keep the faithbig grin

At least have a clue big grin


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:24 PM
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xmarksthespot
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by whirlysplat
So "Where is Bobby's brain?" no its not a B movie or a joke about 12 year olds getting boners


laughing


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:27 PM
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Sir Whirlysplat
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
Every cell in his body though. The lens cells in his eyes should be heavily cataracted by now cos if nothing can pass through the biofield then gap junctions are useless. Neurotransmitters get trapped between the cell and biofield, if things can't get out. No neurotransmitter reuptake if things can't get back in. Superman is literally brain dead.


Whats cataracts got to do with an energy field controlled subconciously by receptors etc to provide super homeostasis.

Not at all the cells would be selectively permeable the energy field is like a normal cell membrane except constructed of energy in this sense, it responds to the cells needs allowing constant change to maintain stabilitybig grin

Keep the faith big grin

Think your ideas through rock


Bored again


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Old Post Jul 1st, 2005 09:28 PM
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