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Lucifer.
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alfheim
No.
no expression




They have statues and idols of them. Thats worship.


Not atall, theres a statue of Abe Lincoln, does that mean that Americans worship him? Or is it just a mark of respect and a focal point for people to go and pay said respects.


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:21 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Not atall, theres a statue of Abe Lincoln, does that mean that Americans worship him? Or is it just a mark of respect and a focal point for people to go and pay said respects.


It would if you prayed to him and asked him for help. Which is what they do with saints. wink


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:24 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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Asking for someone to pray for you isnt worship...if you ask a preist to pray for you does that mean you worship them...no. wink


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:26 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Asking for someone to pray for you isnt worship...if you ask a preist to pray for you does that mean you worship them...no. wink


No not asking somebody to pray for you. You pray to it and ask for help. roll eyes (sarcastic)


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:30 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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And to you thats worship...


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:31 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
And to you thats worship...


Nahhhhh!!!! How is that not worship?


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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:33 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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Because your not exonerating them as God, your not praising them, your simply asking for the saint to pray to God for you, not to have the saint do something for them.

Take a Look at the rosary for example.

quote:
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name.
Thy Kingdom come,
thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory. for ever and ever. Amen


Here, God (Father,) is worshipped, he is declared the master of Heaven and Earth but more importantly he is asked to shed grace on the person delivering the prayer and keep them from the path of evil.

quote:
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.


Once again God (this time the Son) is being asked to shed grace on the person who is praying.

quote:
Hail Mary,
Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit
of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary,
Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of death.


Mary is hailed as being an important and holy person, but note that she is full of grace, this means she has received the forgiveness of God. Note she isn't being asked to save the person praying from sin, hell or evil but simply to pray for them (a pray which would go to God)


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:40 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Because your not exonerating them as God, your not praising them, your simply asking for the saint to pray to God for you, not to have the saint do something for them.

Take a Look at the rosary for example.



Here, God (Father,) is worshipped, he is declared the master of Heaven and Earth but more importantly he is asked to shed grace on the person delivering the prayer and keep them from the path of evil.



Once again God (this time the Son) is being asked to shed grace on the person who is praying.



Mary is hailed as being an important and holy person, but note that she is full of grace, this means she has received the forgiveness of God. Note she isn't being asked to save the person praying from sin, hell or evil but simply to pray for them (a pray which would go to God)


Meh....maybe.


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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 01:54 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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Well, as a Catholic, I can tell you I don't worship Mary or Peter or Urban or anyone but God.


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 02:06 PM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Well, as a Catholic, I can tell you I don't worship Mary or Peter or Urban or anyone but God.


Well anyway Christians suck for suppressing other religons so I dont care who you worhsip really. So dont make any difference to me. Maybe id argue some more but I just dont care enough.


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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 02:10 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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Well, fair enough.


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 02:20 PM
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Quark_666
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Name one organized religeon that doesn't try to suppress other organized religeons.

Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 11:26 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quark_666
Name one organized religeon that doesn't try to suppress other organized religeons.


Buddhism.


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 11:27 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Buddhism.


Hmmm, Tibet...


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 11:33 PM
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Shakyamunison
Nam Myoho Renge Kyo

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
Hmmm, Tibet...


What about Tibet?


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Old Post Jul 15th, 2007 11:53 PM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Quark_666
Name one organized religeon that doesn't try to suppress other organized religeons.


If a religion doesn't try to put itself above other religions, then it shows that its leadership either doesn't care about the general peoples OR they no they aren't the true religion.

Last edited by Grand-Moff-Gav on Jul 16th, 2007 at 09:29 AM

Old Post Jul 16th, 2007 09:22 AM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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quote:
GENESIS 3:1 Now the serpent was more cunning than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said to the woman, "Has God indeed said, 'You shall not eat of every tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat it, nor shall you touch it, lest you die.' " 4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. (NKJV)


Here is the story of Genesis, we all know the story about the Snake and Eve but, who was this snake? If he was a snake at all. (I wonder what JIA would make of this...)

The Bible elsewhere identifies Satan with the serpent in this story. In Revelation 12:9 and 20:2, he is called "that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan." Did he appear to Eve in the form of a talking snake? Probably not.

The Hebrew word translated "serpent" in the above passage is nachash. In addition to "serpent," this Hebrew root word has three other possible meanings. It can be used as a noun to mean (1) "one who practices divination," or (2) "shining brass." However, nachash can also be used as a verb to mean (3) "to shine" or "to glow."

In Genesis 3, it is possible that nachash is used in the verbal form as a noun. If that is the case, the proper translation of hanachash in Genesis 3 would be "the Shining one." This understanding of nachash fits in very well with Paul's description of Satan appearing as an "angel of light" (II Cor. 11:14).

So, it may not have been a serpant but instead the Shining One, or rather, Lucifer who led to the downfall of man.


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Last edited by Grand-Moff-Gav on Jul 16th, 2007 at 09:32 AM

Old Post Jul 16th, 2007 09:28 AM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
If a religion doesn't try to put itself above other religions, then it shows that its leadership either doesn't care about the general peoples OR they no they aren't the true religion.


Thats crap. What it means is they are at peace with their religion and dont feel they have they need to opress other people.

Thats the thing about you abrahimics you just cant possibly concieve the concept of co-existance its just beyond you. I like Heathensim but why the hell would I want everbody to becaome Heathen diversity is a good thing. Hell it would be cool to hang out with heathens and then go to a Tibetan monstary to chill with some monks.

So in other words you think it was ok for the Christians to impose Christainity on the Norse people. What the f**k?


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Old Post Jul 16th, 2007 09:54 AM
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Grand-Moff-Gav
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I think the Norse people did OK out of it.

Can we move this to another thread, i tried to put this back onto Lucifer with that post early.


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Old Post Jul 16th, 2007 10:02 AM
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Deadline
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav
I think the Norse people did OK out of it.



What the hell do you mean they were forced to accept Christanity!! People were tortured and killed how does Christanity possibly give them something the Norse religon cant?

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Grand_Moff_Gav

Can we move this to another thread, i tried to put this back onto Lucifer with that post early.


Too pissed of to care.


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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
- General George Patton Jr

Old Post Jul 16th, 2007 11:01 AM
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