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Lucifer.
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Digi
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Hehe...agreeing with much of what debbiejoe has said...

Rather than repeat myself in a few areas, I'd ask you to re-read my post on page 1 about all of this.

But Satan exists because temptation exists? And because the Bible tells us he does? First, that assumes everyone believes the Bible and that it, and the 'prophets,' are infallible. Second, rather than saying "the Bible is true" or "the Bible tells us..." why not back it up with some logic and reason, not just outdated blind faith.

Last I checked, God didn't write the Bible....humans did. And even if they were 'inspired' by God, humans are indeed flawed...even the Bible has instances on failures from people who are under the commands of 'God'. But, God (be it the Bible's god or a different one) wrote the Universe, and he 'wrote' our intellectual capabilities...writings that I've used quite handily to believe that Satan has never existed (for reasons stated on page 1) That's my Bible.

-DM


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Old Post Jun 28th, 2005 11:14 PM
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Digi
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By the way, good sites earlier debbiejoe


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Old Post Jun 28th, 2005 11:23 PM
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mr.smiley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cking
They don't the gospels aren't the same, some may have more information than others.



I could post a lot of things here,but I won't post too much

read luke 22:67-70.

Lukes account,like Matthews and Johns,contradicts Marks claim that Jesus resoundingly and Publicly affirmed his divine appointment at his trial (Mark 14:62).In Luke,Jesus answers only evasively.


Luke's account suggests that Jesus had received public acclaim as King (19:38).When the Pharisees warned hm to silence thoos who were shouting these things,Jesus refused to do so (19:39-40)Mark claims he made these claims alone yet Matthew,Luke and John say others say this of him.


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Old Post Jun 28th, 2005 11:40 PM
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k00L kiD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cking
The truth is in the bible not humans and their sayings.


Make your posts shorter man!

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 01:06 AM
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k00L kiD
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by GothPrincess
Lucifer is my daddy


confused

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 01:11 AM
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debbiejo
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quote: (post)
[i]
any punishment will eventually become routine...be it spiritual, mental, or physical...or will at least lessen in its intensity. The same with heaven (again, unless it is far beyond our comprehension). I believe in an 'other' life, but I honestly don't think it will be anything like our popular conceptions of heaven or hell.

-DM [/B]


Yeah wouldn't it...become routine...After awhile, it might feel good..

AND wouldn't all those demons get tired of punishing us...What if they decide to quit...then who will punish us...what would god do if the demons quit?...Demons don't like to obey god in the first place, so maybe they won't punish us at all... big grin

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 04:32 AM
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mr.smiley
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Good point.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 04:39 PM
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debbiejo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by mr.smiley
Good point.


Well, maybe we could punish each other....

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 04:45 PM
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k00L kiD
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"Dow who **** with Saint Zeeky will face a thousand punishments!"

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 06:26 PM
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mr.smiley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by debbiejo
Well, maybe we could punish each other....



Theirs an old Japanese story that actualy has us torturing eachother.The story depicts a man that sees heaven.Everyone in heaven has two long sticks tied to their hands(like chopsticks) around a long dinner table.The sticks are so long that they can't feed themselves,however,they can feed the person sitting across from them.They all eat in harmony and find a way to work together.The man then sees the same situation in Hell,only the people are being selfish and are trying to put the food into their own mouths.The food is wasted and everyone goes hungry.


From Aikido and the Harmony of Nature


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 11:48 PM
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debbiejo
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Not in your avatar picture though huh....He must of gone to heaven.

Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 11:51 PM
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cking
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evil spirits don't get tired like us flesh and bone. They simply think it is fun to go around creating chaos for people. temptations don't have to occur from Satan but humans as well. Satan tempted Jesus when he was alone for 40 days without water or food. and Satan used the bible against Jesus only this time to twist it around. here is a verse in Matthew chapter four verse one through eleven. The the spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Jesus ate nothing for 40 days and nights. After this, he was very hungry. The devil came to Jesus to tempt him. The devil said, "If you are the son of god, tell these rocks to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written in the scriptures, A person does not live only by eating bread. But a person lives by everything the lord says." Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city or Jerusalem. He put Jesus on a very high place of the temple. The devil said, "If you are the son of God, jump off. It is written in the scriptures, He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you with their hands. And you will not hit your foot on a rock. Jesus answered him, "It also says in the scriptures, Do not test the lord your God. Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain. He showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. The devil said, "If only you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things." Jesus answered to the devil, "Go away from me Satan! It is written in the scriptures, you must worship the lord your God. Serve only him!" So the devil left Jesus. And then some angels came to Jesus and helped him. This happened after Jesus was starting his ministry. Satan tempted him so he would bypass the cross and mankind will continue to be doomed and used very good verses to try and trick him. Satan does the same thing in Churches and he tells them that the bible is wrong don't go to Christ, try and save yourself, God is wrong, he doesn't love you, everyone hates you. The bible is nothing more than just man made, it doesn't make sense, go and and find inner strength in yourself, for salvation is in humankind. Satan will says this to all people and he will twist the gospel around and get people away from Christ. So uses other religions against jesus and his church. you cannot imagine how powerful satan has in all human life. But God still controls him. The spirit world is alot more powerful than the flesh world. people don't realize this because they don't see them. When satan fell he is in command of one-third of the angels of heaven and when he fell on the earth the fallen angels came also. in a spiritual sense satan right now is the king of this world, for jesus says so, but not for long when jesus will arrive with his 1,000 year reign and satan will be chained and bound. satan does control what a certain country does in a religious matter, but the financial stuff is left to the flesh. He might say to one fallen angel and say, "Go and and twist the gospel around in Europe and tempt them to only follow the Buddhist religion. This way we can get back at God." to another angel, "Go to America and watch and listen to what the Christan's are saying and arguing about this verse, and tempt them into saying that by Good works man will find salvation, not christ." If you still thing satan isn't real, just look outside for yourselves and the evidence is right in front of your face, look at what he has done. If jesus was the king right now sin will never exist and people will never be hateful like they are right now. Since people only listen to what satan has to say instead of christ, then they will act like him in every way instead of christ. Satan didn't get a high position in heaven for nothing. Satan has no problem leading people to false truths and lies. Satan knows what is in the scripture and he knows what is happening in the Church. Some people say oh, satan is never in the Church, wrong! satan is there because he wants to find the right time to twist the word around and deceive the Christians. if a pastor doesn't really know for sure if what if that scripture says if it is a sin or not, then satan will come in and tempt him into saying and lie to him about this and that. Some people say it is God that is saying that this or that is right, but is only being fooled by Satan.


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Old Post Jun 29th, 2005 11:58 PM
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debbiejo
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I'm sorry....I don't think you're human...

Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:00 AM
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cking
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I am, I just know alot about this world. only god knows everything. people only know the things they see. still we can't be fools wandering around this earth, not knowing what is happening and will happen to us.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:04 AM
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mr.smiley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by debbiejo
Not in your avatar picture though huh....He must of gone to heaven.



Oh yeah! laughing


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:07 AM
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mr.smiley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cking
evil spirits don't get tired like us flesh and bone. They simply think it is fun to go around creating chaos for people. temptations don't have to occur from Satan but humans as well. Satan tempted Jesus when he was alone for 40 days without water or food. and Satan used the bible against Jesus only this time to twist it around. here is a verse in Matthew chapter four verse one through eleven. The the spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Jesus ate nothing for 40 days and nights. After this, he was very hungry. The devil came to Jesus to tempt him. The devil said, "If you are the son of god, tell these rocks to become bread." Jesus answered, "It is written in the scriptures, A person does not live only by eating bread. But a person lives by everything the lord says." Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city or Jerusalem. He put Jesus on a very high place of the temple. The devil said, "If you are the son of God, jump off. It is written in the scriptures, He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you with their hands. And you will not hit your foot on a rock. Jesus answered him, "It also says in the scriptures, Do not test the lord your God. Then the devil led Jesus to the top of a very high mountain. He showed Jesus all the kingdoms of the world. The devil said, "If only you will bow down and worship me, I will give you all these things." Jesus answered to the devil, "Go away from me Satan! It is written in the scriptures, you must worship the lord your God. Serve only him!" So the devil left Jesus. And then some angels came to Jesus and helped him. This happened after Jesus was starting his ministry. Satan tempted him so he would bypass the cross and mankind will continue to be doomed and used very good verses to try and trick him. Satan does the same thing in Churches and he tells them that the bible is wrong don't go to Christ, try and save yourself, God is wrong, he doesn't love you, everyone hates you. The bible is nothing more than just man made, it doesn't make sense, go and and find inner strength in yourself, for salvation is in humankind. Satan will says this to all people and he will twist the gospel around and get people away from Christ. So uses other religions against jesus and his church. you cannot imagine how powerful satan has in all human life. But God still controls him. The spirit world is alot more powerful than the flesh world. people don't realize this because they don't see them. When satan fell he is in command of one-third of the angels of heaven and when he fell on the earth the fallen angels came also. in a spiritual sense satan right now is the king of this world, for jesus says so, but not for long when jesus will arrive with his 1,000 year reign and satan will be chained and bound. satan does control what a certain country does in a religious matter, but the financial stuff is left to the flesh. He might say to one fallen angel and say, "Go and and twist the gospel around in Europe and tempt them to only follow the Buddhist religion. This way we can get back at God." to another angel, "Go to America and watch and listen to what the Christan's are saying and arguing about this verse, and tempt them into saying that by Good works man will find salvation, not christ." If you still thing satan isn't real, just look outside for yourselves and the evidence is right in front of your face, look at what he has done. If jesus was the king right now sin will never exist and people will never be hateful like they are right now. Since people only listen to what satan has to say instead of christ, then they will act like him in every way instead of christ. Satan didn't get a high position in heaven for nothing. Satan has no problem leading people to false truths and lies. Satan knows what is in the scripture and he knows what is happening in the Church. Some people say oh, satan is never in the Church, wrong! satan is there because he wants to find the right time to twist the word around and deceive the Christians. if a pastor doesn't really know for sure if what if that scripture says if it is a sin or not, then satan will come in and tempt him into saying and lie to him about this and that. Some people say it is God that is saying that this or that is right, but is only being fooled by Satan.



Satan is within in us,yet Christ isn't.That's a terrible thing for the Church to teach.I know you never personaly said Christ isn't within us,but that's what the genral Christian community belives.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:10 AM
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debbiejo
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cking
I am,


Are you sure...cause I'm not sure anymore... big grin

Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:16 AM
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cking
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when a person is on the verge of converting to Christ. two forces are for or against that person. Satan will tempt them and say don't do it is a lie, you will never be popular in school if you accept Christ. but God will win if that person chooses Christ. He will shut out Satan and his lies and bring that person to God if that person chooses to accept Christ instead of Satan and they accept Satan they choose not to be with God and God may not ever come back to convict that person to Christ. It is now or never in those king of situations.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:16 AM
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cking
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He is not within a person, but a church, but he does influence a person's life either Christian or not.


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Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:17 AM
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mr.smiley
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by cking
He is not within a person, but a church, but he does influence a person's life either Christian or not.


Yes,but the Gospel of Thomas tells us different though.The church strongly denied the authenticity of it,but in a lot of peoples opion,it's a very good teaching indeed.To say he's in the Church is giving into the church too much and goes back to Constatines dictation of Rome.

Correction.It is authentic.Just not accepted by the church.


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Last edited by mr.smiley on Jun 30th, 2005 at 12:25 AM

Old Post Jun 30th, 2005 12:21 AM
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