99% might be an exaggeration, but the point stands. Many religions obligate their followers towards good deeds, but whether or not for good or evil religion is more likely to change the world, I'm not discriminating against which way it changes it, but religion changes the world far more than atheism, historically and in the present.
Gender: Unspecified Location: One for the other hand
However they say "go forth and do good" they also subjugate others at the same time so any good would also be canceled by that. You also have to think what one religion thinks is a good deed and what the other does, just because the religion says this is good doesn't mean that others think it is.
Historically yes. Present day? No. Religion just ended up in the Moral Crisis. Religion got slowly drowned out by the Renaissance. The solutions to the Moral Crisis spurred the enlightnement which was driven on atheistic, or at least non-religious principles. Look what the enlightenment did.
Hint: (starts with Industrial and ends with evolution).
Hahaha, one of these sites opens up pushing against religious beliefs. I am not surprised.
Please don't appeal to the majority. You know that's a logical fallacy.
It doesn't matter if you're an atheist. It's like saying "I drive a car so I know about engines."
You don't know how the system works. I've studied the philosophy and it's archetypes for years and I don't even believe in it.
If you think atheism is JUST not believing in god, then you know NOTHING about atheism as a whole.
Yes, you did say that.
Someone said theists were catholic? Dude.
AN ASTOUNDING RETORT!
Disperse.
Who the F*CK said the bible was philosophy? Are you reading my posts, or just replying to look good? And ... WHAT THE SHIT? WHERE DID I SAY ATHEISTS FOLLOW RULES?
RULES
"1. a principle or regulation governing conduct, action, procedure, arrangement, etc.: the rules of chess."
GUIDELINES
"A statement or other indication of policy or procedure by which to determine a course of action: guidelines for the completion of tax returns. "
GTFO!
Atheism has GUIDELINES. They are to respect fellow man and strive in life. The philosophy has GUIDELINES. You have no idea what you speak, which is amusing yet startling.
No, not every single atheist has that opinion of religion. A MAJORITY do. Even so, It's hypocrisy. Atheists are supposed to be kind to their fellow man. They're breaking their own rule, and they have the right to complain when religion breaks theirs?
Heh, hardly.
Tehehe, I ask you to do the same.
Errors? I told you I wasn't religious. What are barking off about now?
Because they're complaining about hypocrisy within religion and they're hypocritical themselves. Is it too hard to understand? I also addressed that atheism complains about how many lives religion has claimed when Atheism has topped them.
Bias, bias and bias.
That's okay.
I have not bashed religion. Try reading.
Another grand rebuttal. Man, I wish I could go around saying "Italians are Chinese!" and if someone said "No, Italians are Italian" All I'd have to say is "I'm serious, it's true" and I would affirm my claim!
No, life doesn't work by Lord XYZ's logic. It works by logic itself. Sowwy!
Reply to all my statements next time. Your vague, generalized statement didn't quite make the cut, son.
Gnostic Atheism and Strong Atheism both have guidelines AND text. Luckily, weak atheism is a minority compared to each standing on it's own. Atheists shouldn't! They're just as bad, Pittman. Atheism has guidelines that Atheists should assist their fellow man and have a positive outlook on life. They don't follow these guidelines. They are essentially hypocrites because of this factor alone, and the fact that they've also killed for their beliefs.
Oh, stop it. You're so biased. How do you know religion changes the world for the better? Even if God did exist, the primary reason religion is frowned upon today is because of corruption and inane stupidity from men themselves. Religion had incredibly intelligent people, but so did atheists and you'll never be able to determine which belief has the majority of intelligent people following it.
Gender: Unspecified Location: One for the other hand
As I have said before, it is man who is trying to give rules to being an Atheist. All of those are still subsets of Atheism, they have made up their own rules and values and others are going to them much like a religious belief but this is man's need to belong to something greater than themselves. If anything you could call me Strong Atheist because it not simply that I don't believe in god but that I know that he can't exist but I do not have rules and guidelines to live my life by.
To begin with, by supernatural I’m not talking about afterlife…I’m talking about a supernatural life here on earth…letting Jesus be our life source and influencing our desires. THAT’S what He called us to do…to allow Him to live His life through us so that God’s will is carried out.
That’s why I’m saying it’s not about living a moralistic life…but a Christ-filled life. And it’s not about living a life of rules…but a life of desires...His desires. That’s the magic of what Jesus is about…He saves you by living His life through you.
Jesus said He didn’t come to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it. What’s neat about the walk with Jesus is that we end up doing the stuff in the bible (commandments, His teachings) but not through effort of our own per se or because we see them as rules, but because Jesus is at the helm and we start to naturally desire to follow along those lines. The law will one day be fulfilled, by Jesus living it out through man.
Oh but it can be achieved! You said "God will only admit those who tried to become Christ into heaven"...Yes…exactly! When you accept Christ in your life, He becomes your new identity (as I elaborated more on in my earlier post)…that is why we are justified with God. He now looks at us as He looks at His very Son. We are part of the family…that’s what it’s all about.
There is a belief that when you actually become a Christian that now there’s this buddy you have “by your side” (whether it’s God or Jesus)…that’s not it at all. Christ BECOMES your life when you accept the Holy Spirit into your heart…and as a result, you are able to start living a life of divine purpose, and a life in harmony with God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith, and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God, not by works, so that no one can boast."
So much in this little passage.
I used to think very much like you’re suggesting…until I realized I wasn’t living a life of accepting God’s grace, but a legalistic life instead (trying to earn my way to salvation).
In terms of how we become pure, it’s actually the other way around! We don’t change who we are by changing what we do…we change what we do by changing who we are.
You can try, and try, and try (as so many Christians do), to be the perfect follower of Jesus, but unless you accept the real-life transforming power of the Holy Spirit in your life, you’re never gonna truly change. That’s the way God made us…to need Him to change us into better people, not for us to be able to do it ourselves through works.
Now what I’m saying here might go against a lot of the stuff you’ve heard, believed, etc, about Christianity and the bible, but I’m offering you the true Word here…the real good news…the non-twisted and misconstrued Christianity. And the reason it has been twisted goes back to the established church.
The traditional church over the ages has wanted to hold on to the idea that we HAVE to keep doing those things like tithing, or confession, or repenting, or anything that keeps bringing people back to the church for the hope of purification. Why? Because otherwise they would lose their power.
Not that the idea alone of going to church is bad…not that all churches fall under what I’m talking about above, but a lot of the beliefs that permeate modern thought about Christianity today come from this kind of church doctrine.
It’s all about guilt…and feeling that you need to go to church because you weren’t able to bring yourself to follow a commandment, or emulate Christ’s actions, or whatever. This just leaves a Christian feeling defeated. But that’s not what the true Christian life is…the Christian life is about trusting in your new identity in Christ, and trusting that through your faith in the Word (that you are a new creation in Him) you are then righteous. That’s it…and that’s how you’ll eventually become more like Christ.
As an aside, it’s also not about works “so that no one can boast”. That way there isn’t a gauge for people to say to others that I’m more of a Christian than you because I do this, this, and this…or say to God that I deserve to go to Heaven because of all the good deeds I’ve done. Even a lot of non-Christians do a lot of good things.
I was never talking about simply “Christians in the past”, I was pointing to those who were involved in heinous acts in the name of God. Of course a lot of Christians in the past were real Christians.
One things I can say though is, because the church today doesn’t have as much power as it had in the past in terms of the way we can talk about and live out our faith, there is much more awareness today about living a grace-based Christian life (which is really the only way of living a truly Christian life), as opposed to a legalistic Christian life. Unfortunately, the legalistic Christian walk has been more prominent in the past because of the power the church had had.
Again, there’s a lot of churches that don’t fall under this category…and more now than ever before…thank God!
Hope that helps.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Apr 12th, 2007 at 04:50 PM
All the ways you wish you could be, that's me. I look like you wanna look, I **** like you wanna ****, I am smart, capable, and most importantly, I am free in all the ways that you are not.
Yeah, um, who else would give the GUIDELINES? It was a philosophy created by man years ago. There isn't rules, for the last time. Don't know how many times I have to state this; There is Guidelines, not rules.
It's not a religious belief, it's a PHILOSOPHY with GUIDELINES. Holy f*ck. You're not a strong atheist or you'd follow these guidelines. Weak atheists hold the belief only not to believe in god and to do as they please with themselves. Strong atheists AND gnostic ones follow the guideline to help their fellow man and build their life the best they can instead of building themselves for the AFTERLIFE as religious people do.
By the way, you do not know that he can't exist. I don't believe in god, and I'd never come out with such an ignorant statement. There's no way you can or cannot determine his existence.
Gender: Unspecified Location: One for the other hand
For the last time, there ARE NOT RULES OR GUIDELINES to being an Atheist. It is one and only one simple concept that you do not believe in god or deities. Have other Atheist come up with some that they say we should live by, the answer is yes but that doesn’t mean that their correct. Just because a group of Atheist got together and wrote up or thought up something that you should do to be a “good” Atheist is meaningless and is not what being an Atheist is about.
As for knowing that he can’t exist, yes that is my belief as in how religions describe God I know that their version can’t exist.
There is something to what you're saying here in some sense...I just feel it's important to make the "faith, not works" thing clear to begin with when talking about salvation and stuff.
In terms of what value Christian works or emulating Christ has...if I take time to pray, or read God's word, or give to the poor...or if I refrain from stealing, going to strip bars, or beating my wife, it will allow the Holy Spirit to better work in me.
But again, it's not (as believed by some) necessary that we set out to do these things to be considered Christians, or ACT like Jesus to be like Jesus. As I said earlier, it's exactly the opposite. The more we become like Him (simply through faith and trust in His promise to us), the more we will start to act like him. It's up to Him to make us better people (and simultaneously carry out His plan for the redemption of this world), not up to us.
What then happens is we WANT to pray, WANT to love our brother, and WANT to praise God. Thing is...obligation kills inspiration. God doesn't want us to feel obliged when we're praising Him. He's given us Christ so we can know Him, and then praise Him out of the love we're feeling from Him (from the eternal life in heaven He's granted us, and by the realization that we are now His children and we have victory in Him).
It's all about love. That's how it's possible for people who truly have Christ in their lives to give love in abundance to others. We see and feel the love and forgiveness we get from God, and then we translate that love and forgiveness into the world. It's kind of ingenious how it's set up.
Voila.
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Last edited by EPIIIBITES on Apr 12th, 2007 at 11:44 PM
Wrong, you're being ignorant? Why? You don't know what the f*ck you're talking about. I'm not surprised. There are guidelines. Get over it. In gnostic and strong atheism. You called yourself a strong atheist and you don't even know what the hell it is.
You basically shouldn't even be ALLOWED to post about this issue. You're obviously incredibly uninformed.
Weak atheism.
Who says they're correct? They're not trying to be RIGHT about something. The guidelines indicate to help your fellow man and to live your life. I have repeated myself for like the fifth or sixth time now.
Yes, it is. Strong atheism was first, along with gnostic. Weak came last, because of the modern day. The people who BUILT the philosophy you follow generated these guidelines. Being an atheist isn't about insulting religion and doing what you want. The philosophy isn't that simple. If you STILL think it is and if you STILL think Atheism doesn't that guidelines, you should quit this debate while you're still suffering minimal loss.
No, no, no . . . Your belief is wrong.
Yes, I did say that. It is wrong. You do not know he does not exist. You have no way of knowing. You THINK he doesn't exist. You cannot KNOW that he does not exist. It's an impossibility.
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Apr 12th, 2007 12:21 AM
