You actually may have a point, I mean, the reason they passed affirmative action was to destroy the labor movement, and it's worked fantastically.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
Lol... televangelist and buttsex, lol... I'm picturing Jimmy S. in my head. Their wives must not be giving up the anal sex I guess. Funny sh!t, but is that a fact?
Dude, it's absolutely pointless to debate with someone that is blind to their own hypocrisy. You might as well debate with a brick wall than 95% of the religious nutjobs that infest the planet.
But there are radical liberals who are JUST AS BAD.....
I thought i would only make rivals out of Conservatives here, because I am totally Liberal.
But on the Abortion thread i got ATTACKED as if i were a religious pighead, simply because I feel abortion is killing for convienence and therefore equal to murder.
I've made enemies out of conservatives AND liberals here
#1 You're right, there are many liberals in the world who adhere so strongly to their own perspective that they neglect the POV of another person. However, consider the built in flaw of exclusivity v. inclusivness. I'm no liberal, by any means. However, when you look at the actions and voting habits of one against the other, one stands out as being the overwhelming sponsor of exclusivity.
#2 Being liberal has come to be understood as teh perspective of the person who detests any constraint and an abolishment of societal rules. You can thank the GOP propaganda machine for that. As well as the small minded people who fell for it and propogate that conept, as members of the personality cult.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
You know the thing is I always beleived that Liberalism is about trying to promote change, and trying to adapt to an ever changing world. Along with, ofcourse, hearing out the points of views of every individual.
Conservatism always struck me as the reluctance to change, to only change in the face of a major threat, and to keep tradition alive for as long as possible. To only rely on what we already know, and not take chances.
You sure you are not Liberal ? I don't mean extremist liberal, but i still thought you were liberal. I am.
In America, Liberalism is different than it is in the rest of the world. That is the result of a two party system that places itself totally at odds with each other. If the Republicans say black, it's always assumed that they Democrats will say white. There is no room for agreement in the American political landscape.
Another huge problem with our system is that proposals, laws, etc are all piggy-backed onto bills. This leads to line item disagreements. That's why some representatives are held accountable for voting against a certain bill that supports one social program and praised for their support of another on the same bill. It's because they're voting against a certain item that isn't in the best interests of their contstituants. So, if a single bill addresses water conservation, military budget and AIDS education, there's three issues that can be disagreed upon by any number of representatives. Each issue needs to be addressed individually. And if that takes longer, then the congress can work longer. But they won't vote for that, on either side of the aisle.
I'm not touchy-feely, and that is the typical view of liberals in America. I'm a proponent of forced change and acceptance. And while this is a difficult path to follow at the first, the end results are where the pay off becomes evident. Forced acceptance is difficult for the first generation to deal with, but those that follow won't know any different. And any opposition to that change is met in kind with retribution.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Change happens regardless on whether we force it or not. We can only enhance the process of change, or gear it towards our favor, but change happens regardless.
Touchy-feely ? I'm only touchy feely when it comes to sex...in a literal sense.
I think a lot of Conservatives are touchy feeling to and dont realize it.
Don't bate me with a professed misunderstanding of "touchy-feely". It is percieved as a ask questions now, while the world sh*ts itself appart perspective. A politically correct, don't offend anyone point of view. And I'm not at all for that.
Change does happen. But, it rarely reflects anything less that a political agenda. Acceptance is rarely a change based on freedom. Freedom is an oxymoron that diguises forced tolerance. And all of that comes from political advertisments. Change is NEVER going to happen on it's own. Otherwise, the term "normal" wouldn't exist.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
You may think that someone is touchy feely bcuz they cry a lot, and that same person may think you are touchy feely because you get mad easily.
But w/e lets drop that like you asked.
You say forced tolerance ? There is a difference between personal tolerance and social tolerance. You dont HAVE to like gay people. You don't HAVE to like black people. You don't HAVE to like the fact that women are becoming more and more powerful.
But when you step in to limit the freedoms of people simply because you do not like them, THERE is a Serious problem.
There's no "forced tolerance" when it comes to allowing people to have the same freedoms as everyone else. Actual "Forced tolerance" would mean if you have to be freinds with everyone you didn't like, and if you were barred from saying anything mean to them or inviting them to your damn parties.
Acceptance is diff from tolerance. Acceptance means you understand someone else's differences, and will no longer treat those as negatives. That's much harder to do than tolerance.
Change does happen on its own, because there are always people who will think differently. If you and I do nothing about a problem, SOMEONE else will. Something will budge. Dictatorships..empires...they never last. Change happens....all WE can do is speed it up.
The term "normal" does not exist either way. "Normal" is just what people percieve to be correct. Everything else to them is "wierd" or "wrong". The concept of "Normal" is only powered by the majority opinion. That does make it fact.
Gender: Male Location: Losing at something, somewhere
From dictionary.com:
Tolerance-The capacity for or the practice of recognizing and respecting the beliefs or practices of others.
Acceptance-A disposition to tolerate or accept people or situations.
The terms are nearly synonymous. What I don't understand is how you can force someone to accept/tolerate a group of people. You can ensure that they don't perform any violent acts against said group, but to actually change the opinion and nature of a grown person is nearly impossible. Of course, preventing discrimination is possible, but the task could be difficult with the outside opinions of biased adults.
Could we really teach children not to discriminate if their teachers are biased? It'd be difficult to remedy without careful selection of teachers. So then we discriminate against those with prejudices. They in turn fester hatred towards the group who claims not to discriminate at all, claiming hypocrisy (which would then be true).
All we can really hope for is the gradual decline of active hatred towards groups.
But on a final note, I would ask whether disputing normalcy is really worth mentioning. True, it is based on the opinions of the majority, but so is morality. Does that mean that right and wrong do not exist? I don't think so, do you?
I never said that open displays of emotion were a sign of liberalism. When was the last time you saw a democrat, or a politician in general, cry? I'm addressing stereotypes. And stereotypes exist out of an honest reality. I'm not all for comforting the nation. That time has come and gone.
Nor am I implying that such forced tolerance exist. However, the limitation of freedom is at the very heart of my beliefs. Why should one person walk down the street without fear of retribution over his lifestyle, over another. And there is a very real change that can take place through force v. allowing nature to take it's course.
Sure there is. Look at the sixties. Do you think the huge reduction in race motivated crimes happened because people suddenly started liking each other? No. It happened because people knew there was a viable consequence to their racially motivated actions. I'm not saying that "forced tolerance" would end all teh problems, or initiate honest acceptance. But it would certainly stop people from acting on those out dated beliefs.
I'm not actually addressing "acceptance". That will never happen. It's human nature to fear and despise what it does not understand. However, "understanding" of consequence is totally within the grasp of human nature.
Change never happens on it's own. History supports that notion. And yes, change can happen in history, with the help of the people who are experiencing it. Why is that bad? Sometimes the reality of the front of a gun muzzle is less appealing than the reality to come that lies at the end of that muzzle.
That's my point.
__________________ "If I were you"
"If you were me, you'd know the safest place to hide...is in sanity!
Gender: Unspecified Location: Corporate States of America
No, gay marriage should NOT be legal, but then no marriage should be legally reconized by the state. If someone wants to consider themselves married, fine. If they want their religion to recognize them as married then that's ok too. But there should be no legal benifits and privlidges to being married, it discriminates against single people.
__________________ My parents said I could be anything I wanted, so I became an a$$hole.
instead of married you can be...buttbuddies. instead of husband and wife, you'll be butt buddies. instead of being "engaged", you'll be "butt-Buddies".
I'm sorry, someone had to reference that south park episode.
__________________ Land of the free, home of the brave...
Do you think we will ever be saved?
In this land of dreams find myself sober...
Wonder when will it'll all be over...
Living in a void when the void grows colder...
Wonder when it'll all be over?
Will you be laughing when it's over?
KMC Community Forums
May 28th, 2006 07:19 PM
