In other words: When did Revan, in preparation for his huge Galactic War, as well as being the tactical commander-which requires BEING there in a command chair- find time to be training, as opposed to preparing tactics and all?
How many powerful people did Ragnos kill when he was Dark Lord? You're using some terrible double standards. Killing the most people doesn't make you the best DL.
You failed to respond to any points, btw. Palpatine>Revan and Ragnos. Canon seems to be your enemy.
I want a detailed list, now: proof of Ragnos's training. Proof of people Ragnos killed and proof of Ragnos doing things onscreen. Now
This is Star Wars mate, he doesn't need to sit at a command chair, he can still communicate with whoever he likes via a holo. In the final battle at Malachor, he was in total command of the Republic fleet, and he still managed to kill Mandalore in a fight. He didn't need to train, fighting in a war is training itself!
You don't become a Dark Lord by killing your master in his sleep in ancient times. Ragnos ruled for 100yrs! You don't rule for that long with so many powerful enemies if your not strong. He must have had alot of training. Ragnos took the title of Dark Lord by killing his master in fight! He was always challenged but nobody could beat him.
I never said killing the most people makes you best. But killing DL does! Sids did kill a DL but the cowards way!
Revan killed a DL! Malak!! I know he wasn't a Sith but he still killed a DL!
Which Sidious never did. Sids only held on to power for 20yrs! then he was killed by Vader! That is proof of is failure!
Now, show me proof Revan and Ragnos have failed in what they wanted!?
Yeah i think everybody would prefer another Star Wars movie, only this time in ancient times. It would be better to actually watch a TRUE dark Lord fight!!
Last edited by LordOfSithGods on Dec 12th, 2007 at 09:11 PM
You realize to command a battle, you need to BE there? You can't lead from a hologram, because you need to be up to date with ships, troop positions and to give your troops anything RESEMBLING morale.
In other words, you've no proof Revan trained when he was DLOTS. Which was after the war
We know how Ragnos ruled: Manipulation. Fact.
And really? Naga Sadow became Dark Lord with lies and deception. We know Ajunta Pall had his predecessor murdered. 'Treachery is the Way of the Sith'
He was always challenged? Prove it. Simus was his master? Prove it. Ragnos killed Simus in a fight? Prove it. Simus is still alive when Ragnos died.
Then about 99 percent of every Sith who ever lived is a coward. Killing your master and avoiding a fight is what a sith calls 'smart.'
Malak did something similar. Was he called coward by his minions? No.
Good for him. I didn't ask you who Revan killed.
Plagueis
He was killed by the person destined by the Force to kill him? And he held to power for twenty years? That's better than Revan's record. Better than Exar Kun's glorious '6 months.' Better than Nihilus's 'two years'
And Palpatine's dominion was the entire Galaxy. So, he held the entire galaxy for a quarter of a century? Bigger than any other Sith.
Sure: Revan was removed as Dark Lord after Malak blew him out of the sky. His ambitions came to nothing. Ragnos? Ragnos achieved everything he wanted since all he wanted was to rule the Sith Empire in isolation. He knew they weren't powerful enough to expand.
Oh, and Ragnos also failed in everything after death. Ragnos didn't get the Sith to unify and he was beaten by Jaden Korr and failed to return to life.
We saw a true Sith Lord fight. Palpatine
Who is canonically said to be the most powerful Sith ever. In the Dark Side. S orry
Thats why he gave his speeches before every battle in the war. (Only takes 10mins mate, not 5 days!) War planning was done before the battle. (again doesn't take long mate, maybe 2-3hrs! he also had Republic officers who don't need to be told twice!) Are you stupid mate? what he can do in training is 1,000 better in war, so stop talking bulls**t!
I'm not saying Sith don't minipulate dumb a**! read my posts properly. I said Ragnos has minipulated more powerful people (to be exact their real sith GO BACK TO MY FIRST POST TO SEE THIS) than Sids ever has (Senators! WOW!). Well who cares if Simus or his mum is still alive when Ragnos died. Point is, Ragnos died peacefully. If Simus couldn't challenge Ragnos and kill him then he is poo to me, Ragnos was the DL!
Of course 99% of Sith are cowards, (FEAR!!!!!) damn your a slow learner! But then it makes the ones who never run away more powerful. Malak did do the same thing, and he was called coward by Revan himself, Kreia, Jedi masters, Atton and even Canderous. (So what? Who cares about Malak!? Plus thats why they were his minions!! God man you make me laugh some times.)
Nilhus never held the title of DL as Revan is still ALIVE! Sids only ruled over weaklings! (Normal galaxtic people, you would have been one of them if you were in the SW universe!) He didn't rule over other powerful Sith! He only killed a few Jedi Masters. (Not even including the most powerful, Yoda)
Like Sids Malak tried and failed to kill Revan, Vader was sucessful in killing Sids!!! (I have all ready said that was Revan's only failure.)
Your right about Ragnos, thats why he ruled for 100yrs not only 20! I'd say he is smarter than Sids then! Remember he died peacefully as ruler of billions of Sith for 100yrs. Sids was killed after only 20yrs by a half man half droid!
Ragnos was a shadow of his former self, thats why he lost against Jaden.
Because Revan did not need to minipulate anybody into becoming his servant, he is more powerful. They either joined him willingly or was forced into joining him. If they were too strong willed they were killed, and there was not a damn thing anybody could do to stop him. He didn't need any lies or deception to do what he wanted. He killed whatever he wanted whenever he wanted.
I will, of course, see where you're getting this front.
Revan is mentioned as the commander in several battles. That implies being present to lead forces
Ragnos, we know, played his opponents against eachother, or had them assassinated. Manipulation. It kind of takes care of your "He was always challenged" point, does it not?
nd how do you know how powerful the people Ragnos manipulated are?
He did? Isn't Ragnos's cause of death still unknown?
And apparently, you were wrong about Ragnos killing his master. Simus was not killed and Simus was not his master
Yes. And Simus was a head in a jar, kept alive by Sith alchemy.
Or more stupid. Naga Sadow sure seized the bull by the horns...and got his Empire destroyed. Compare that to Ragnos, Palpatine and Bane's 'play it safe' policy
Where was he called coward, now? Last I checked, Malak was seen as an intensely brutal warrior and was honored by the Sith.
Revan ceased to be DLOTS ever again after Malak took the title. Malak was DLOTS, then Nihilus was. Revan being alive is no consequence if he became a Jedi
Irrelevant to his power. Palpatine also ruled over numerous Dark Jedi, force users and Darth Vader, one of the most accomplished Jedi killers of all time.
Personal power is not determined by the power of your subjects
As opposed to Ragnos's grand total of 'zero?'
He destroyed the Sith Lord known as Revan in the end. Irrelevant. And Palpatine returned from the dead, making Vader's victory irrelevant.
He ruled a much smaller part of the galaxy?
Palpaine ruled for 25 years, thank you. Which, when you really look at it, is a lot more impressive, since the size of his empire was hundreds that of Ragnos.
Because he knew the Sith were too weak to fight the Republic? That's common sense. Palpatine had a much smaller Sith empire to draw on and took over the galaxy.
Billions? Hundreds of years? Show proof.
I want proof.
Really? That's why he used Malachor to weed out others and use its dark energies to corrupt the others to his cause?
In other words, manipulation
So...brute force? Dosn't seem that effective
And he got blasted out of the sky and lost his memory for his trouble
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When did revan killed anybody with equal power? Hell when did malak kill anybody with equal power? What about nihilus?
Uh nobody except nihilus and sidious can drain entire planets no one other than sidious can reduce somebody to charred bones.
PROVE that revan knew the force storm technique, oh RIGHT he CAN'T because its been stated ONLY sidious has this technique, read the dark empire source book you moron. Hell and STOP posting, you look like a baffoon who can't debate and has no idea what he is talking about.
Prove that he learnt it, where did he learn it from, from whom, where did he use it, when did he use it?
Looks like you don't know how to stop posting thus looking like a tool.
LMAO! It was ragnos who invented the scepter! NOT TAVION! Thus he was the first to use it! Hence forth palpatine > him simply because he replicated the same feat with the force, not with tools!
PURE bullshit, daniel wallace stated that the statements were referring to palpatines raw power, NOT political power.
Oh and as of dark empire, what political power does palpatine hold when every one thought he was dead? Thats right NONE, and the DESB clearly stated he is the most powerful sith due to his knowledge of the force
Except for the fact that in sidious case, the quotes were referring to power.
Hell the AOTC stated he was the most powerful sith lord too, and what did he accomplish at that time? Merely being a chancellor.
Sids is powerful because he IS powerful, and according to The rise of darth vader
, sidious has everyday to study all the ancient jedi and sith holocrons, the fact that he has thousands of holocrons making him more powerful in the force due to the knowledge he gained.
Now, STOP posting n00b, your getting on everybodies nerves here.
Really? Oh how i forget naga sadow, the most infamous ancient sith did nothing with the force except throw a brick with enough power to knock his opponent out.
And ragnos, who invented the scepter to drain the force would lose to palpatine seeing he replicated that technique without any tools
Last edited by BoratBorat on Dec 13th, 2007 at 03:49 AM
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This guy's posts are filled with so much bullshit lol. First of all, Nihilus DID become the Dark Lord of the Sith! Second, almost ALL of your arguments are based on things you bet Revan or Ragnos had!
Also, Revan didn't know of Nihilus.
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This dude's posts aren't worth the time it takes me to finish this sentence, but people have been using similar logic for a long time. Comparing Marka Ragnos's empire to Palpatine's Empire is far more nonsensical than even comparing the two in personal power. Even though we know that Palpatine at his peak is more potent than Ragnos at his peak, it should be even more obvious that Palpatine's Empire supercedes any regime in the Star Wars mythos. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, the New Galactic Empire (a continuation of Palpatine's Imperial State) doesn't hold as much territory as the older version. Ragnos is apparently a brilliant Sith, but his one hundred year tenure as Jen'ari of a handful of backwater worlds does not compare to Palpatine's two decades as the sole dictator of not only the galaxy's only superpower at the time (whereas Ragnos's empire was outclassed by the Republic), but his regime was more powerful than any other in history. Hell, the Imperial Remnant has more territory under its belt than the Sith Empire. Add to the fact that Lightsnake is correct, Palpatine worked to achieve galactic dominance under greater odds against him. He ultimately had to rely on his own intellect to get himself to the position he did and maintain it. Ragnos had more to draw on.
Not to mention, by the way, that Palpatine's death was the result of prophecy by the individual with the most potent connection to the Force in history; it's not as if a fellow Sith Lord killed him. Anakin did. And it was an act of sacrifice. No practical individual would have made such an attempt, which is why Vader was held in servile submission for two decades.
Concluding with the fact that Palpatine -- in just one year -- snatched victory right out of the jaws of the New Republic and took over 3/4ths of the galaxy again.
I forgot to mention the beauty of the EU and how the new essential guide works off of it, stating that Anakin really didn't fulfill the prophecy and therefore, wasn't the chosen one, which kinda goes against George Lucas' words. I often wonder if George Lucas cares anymore or if he's made enough money to contradict himself freely.
Did you know Gah Luk Tus you sound like Anakin? Stop whinging continuously like a spoilt little brat. (I'm not your mummy, so you will NOT get what you want!) It doesn't matter how many times you call me idiot, or anything else (Actually i'd prefer you to continue calling me worse stuff, just so i can get rid of you forever! i'll post as much as i like, unless i get a warning from the admins telling me NOT to! But why would they? I haven't done anything wrong!. In fact i'll triple my posts if from now on, just to annoy you more. Not sure others will like that. And they can thank you for reading more of my posts!
Oh sorry, i've just gone and LMAO!!! Again!
And i would like to say sorry to lightSnake for calling you a dumb a**, i didn't mean it! LOL
Of course he was present to lead forces! Can you please stop repeating the same things? because i have to do the same. But the fact is, he was fighting, was he not, so he did not need to train war is the best way increasing power, that is what people train for isn't it. (Sid was never fighting, only planning, but most of his plans have failed anyway. A small group of rebels declared war on him! They were not under Imperial command, THATS NOT WHAT I CALL TOTAL DOMINATION OF THE GALAXY!) and his own servant killed him in the end. Yeah Vader was destined to kill him but he was not any where near as powerful as everybody thought he'd become.
Atton has no biased opinion of Malak or Revan, he said Malak was a coward! Sion thought Malak was a coward. His actions proved he was a coward.
I don't know exactly how powerful they're, but being a Sith is good enough for starters, plus are you comparing Nago Sadow and other powerful Sith with Senators in the Republic? The only powerful Jedi Sids could manipulate was Anakin, but he only chose to follow Sids to save his wife's life. Or Sids would have been killed by Mace.
Yeah i've noticed you don't know what your talking about from the start. I never said Simus was Ragnos' master. You did. You can't even lie! (If you want i'll find that post to show your lies to everybody here and how biased you are) Let me guess your now going to say thats CANON?
I don't know if Ragnos was killed by someone, so lets leave that for now. But ruling for 100ys is CANON! Now your going against canon.
Come on LightSnake just read your posts? Banes, Ragnos and Sids policy was safer? Well it sure as hell was, i'm not saying that. I'm saying how does that safe policy mean he is more powerful than a DL that never hides? I should add that the safe policy was bulls**t as he was still killed by a servant.
I have really looked at it LightSnake, and i believe in quality NOT quantity.
Ragnos ruled a small part of the galaxy with some of the most violent and powerful Sith imaginable! (Nago Sadow is an example) Sith always fight to see who is the best. Maybe not be powerful as you like, but their stronger than senators. If you don't agree then you've been talking bulls**t
Now i know your being biased, if you say Ragnos has grand total of zero power! So you looking for any s**t you can find from his a** to show he is weak (LOL) Stick your nose further up there, you may find some!
Sids ruled almost entire if not the entire galaxy. But it was filled with common people. Thats why i'm saying its not impressive. The Jedi were gone, (Vader had killed alot of Jedi including younglings in a surprise attack on the order, there was only 2 Siths as Sids and Vader never had apprentices who were trained properly)
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"Malak had strength, and embraced it, saw his opportunity and took it. Then Lord Revan had the chance to rule over an empire, to heal this broken galaxy and make it strong again – instead he chose to surrender it to weakness, and he ran away." -Darth Sion
Guess that sends your little theory in the shitter. Quote from the games.
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PYRON WOULD WIPE THE FLOOR WITH STORM LULZ!
Right. So Thrawn and Ackbar trained themselves? Revan has one confirmed battle in the Mando wars. That's it
Too bad. Palpatine had control of the Galaxy. It's the 'galactic Empire'. being resisted doesn't mean he wasn't in control
No. He was only 'amazingly powerful.' Not 'Godlike powerful.'
And he didn't kill Palpatine in combat. He did it while Palpatine was distracted
Actually, just a Sith. Atton was never a Sith. The Sith honored Malak for what he did
Not good enough. Prove up
How about the thousands of Dark Jedi Palpatine ruled? One of whom being strong enough to match Ood?
Please. if Anakin didn't come in-and Palpatine knew he would- Palpatine would've unleashed the lightning and wouldn't have stopped for Anakin's benefit.
Mace would've died. Not Palpatine
Liar. You said Ragnos killed his master to become Dark Lord
Go on. Let's see it.
I didn't claim anything to the contrary. He ruled for a century via manipulation.
Ragnos hid. He hid the Empire from the Jedi. Having a succesful policy doesn't mean a thing to personal power. Just happens Palpatine was more powerful besides that.
Sorry.
Power is not determined by the power of your subjects. Who did Exar Kun and Freedon Nadd rule, now?
So violent they start crying over the death of a talking dead. So powerful they throw bricks and get killed by slaves. Real impressive
Like Bane did. And Malak. I want canon to support this
Sure they're more powerful than Senators. Why does this mean anything?
When did I say that?
Let's hear what he didn't rule. Small group of people fighting him means...what?
Except Lumiya, Tremayne, Kadann, Mara Jade, Sedriss, Goir. Torbin, Ameesa Darys, Arden Lyn, Jerec, Roganda, Jeng Droga, Sarcev Quest and numerous other powerful Dark Jedi, right?
You might as well say Ragnos sucked since the 'power Dark Siders' are a small ruling class and most of the Sith were slave Massassi
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Huh? you ARE an idiot.
Iv said worse things to people and all i get is a warning because i have my limits unlike you who never knows when to stop posting.
You admitted to triple posting.
Lol please DO triple post so that you will get rid of yourself
Lol and your laughing hysterically at nothing, i bet you really need to get locked up in a mental institute.
Sith'ari was a title that, in the ancient Sith language, meant "Overlord".
Sometime during the early history of the First Sith Empire, the coming of the Sith'ari, an exemplar of the Sith ideal, was foretold. Inspired by the legend of Adas, the Sith'ari was prophesied a perfect being—the ultimate Sith—free of all restrictions who would rise to power to lead the Sith and, according to the legend, destroy them—yet, through their destruction, make them stronger than ever.
During the last years of the New Sith Wars, certain prominent Sith Lords such as Kopecz believed in the possibility that Darth Bane was the Sith'ari.
Revan is also a candidate. He brought the Sith to power after the Mandalorian Wars but ultimately destroyed them with his redemption and defeat of Malak. Through the teachings stored in his holocron, he would be instrumental to Darth Bane's reformation of the Sith Order into an order which would eventually conquer the galaxy, thus helping the Sith become stronger than they had ever been. (Which is TRUE!)
Sirak was believed to be the Sith'ari. Qordis told Bane that it was true, but Bane denied it. Sirak was later defeated by Bane in the dueling ring at the Academy, and was then killed by Bane in the Academy's archives shortly before he left for Lehon.
Darth Bane is a possible candidate, as he provided Kaan with the Thought Bomb, (He learned from Revan's holocron) leading to the destruction of the Brotherhood of Darkness. Afterward he instituted the Rule of Two to make the Sith stronger than ever. It is also alluded to in Darth Bane: Path of Destruction that Bane is fulfilling an ideal that he found in the prophecy and Darth Revan's holocron.
Sources
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (First mentio
Betrayal (Indirect mention only) ned)
Darth Bane: Path of Destruction (Mentioned only)
The New Essential Chronology
Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties
Right, they believe he's not because he didn't eradicate the sith, which the chosen one was supposed to, so if we were to go with inconsistencies, then according to them he wouldn't be the chosen one.
Dec 12th, 2007 08:35 PM
That is proof of is failure! 
i'll post as much as i like, unless i get a warning from the admins telling me NOT to! But why would they? I haven't done anything wrong!. In fact i'll triple my posts if from now on, just to annoy you more. Not sure others will like that. And they can thank you for reading more of my posts! 
