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Originally posted by carver9
But he is talking, that's what you are missing. That's why I asked...if I post a scan of him talking, especially saying "HULK SMASH", will you concede? I downloaded an issue today with him saying this...Indestructible Hulk #9 (or 10, can't remember off hand).

Show me the scan where he searched the world. Again, travel speed isn't combat speed. If you are giving this to one person, then you need to share the wealth.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
It should. But does it? Has Superman ever been written using such speeds/abilties before? Aren't abilities supposed to be demonstrated in-combat before we start applying them to combat threads?

Let's take Surfer for example. The guy has shown: phasing, shrinking and black hole creation within bodies out-of-combat. While ALL these abilities individually or in combination can be quite devastating in a fight, it has been determined via consensus here that they can't be used in fights because he's never really used them in combat.

And how exactly would we be able to even quantify that "feat"? What means do we have as a way of measuring what was happening here? As what I said above, too many variables are absent to make any kind of conclusive determination.

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Originally posted by carver9
I don't think Superman is slow at all and yes, that is a super speed showing but should it apply as a combat showing against an opponent that is trying to knock you out? No. Give me a book and I could read through it at a fair pace but when it comes to me tagging Bruce Lee, it ain't happening. Its not a combat showing. Don't get what's so difficult about providing a combat showing for Superman. The guy has been out longer than Hulks indestructible title but you all can't provide a single showing of combat minus him reading some books. WTF.

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Originally posted by eaebiakuya
If it should, but he dont use in combat, it is PIS.

And Superman fighted with Super Speed against Orion.

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Originally posted by carver9
I don't think Superman is slow at all and yes, that is a super speed showing but should it apply as a combat showing against an opponent that is trying to knock you out? No. Give me a book and I could read through it at a fair pace but when it comes to me tagging Bruce Lee, it ain't happening. Its not a combat showing. Don't get what's so difficult about providing a combat showing for Superman. The guy has been out longer than Hulks indestructible title but you all can't provide a single showing of combat minus him reading some books. WTF.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
It should. But does it? Has Superman ever been written using such speeds/abilties before? Aren't abilities supposed to be demonstrated in-combat before we start applying them to combat threads?

Let's take Surfer for example. The guy has shown: phasing, shrinking and black hole creation within bodies out-of-combat. While ALL these abilities individually or in combination can be quite devastating in a fight, it has been determined via consensus here that they can't be used in fights because he's never really used them in combat.

And how exactly would we be able to even quantify that "feat"? What means do we have as a way of measuring what was happening here? As what I said above, too many variables are absent to make any kind of conclusive determination.

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Originally posted by ares834
Fair enough.



Hulk's showings tend to simply be creating streaks and stuff like that, the exception being his most recent fight. Superman has done that several times in his fights.

Then, in his battle with Orion, both are using super speed and are throwing punches that are creating sonic booms. And of course, we have that one panel where Superman punches Orion many times.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman blitzed Orion too if that is what you're looking for.
Who said Surfer can't use them in combat? He chooses not to since its not in his character to do such things. Blitzing is in Superman's nature.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think one of the main problems I have with the whole "reading fast" is the fact that it is a rather unquantifiable "feat". I mean, we don't even know how many books he read, was there a mention about how big the library was? How'd he even KNOW that he read "every medical text ever written"? Was he silly enough to waste time and go ahead to read detailed papers about genetic disorders, psychology, dental, STDs and cancers and other unrelated medical fields while Lane lay dying on the operating table just so he can CLAIM to have read every medical text ever written? Or for that matter, what powers did he use in conjunction with each other in order to achieve what he did other than speed. Fast fingers, special vision powers plus eidetic super-memory would probably be the safest bet. But exactly HOW FAST was he here? Again, unquantifiable and not really sure how it'd apply to a combat situation as we haven't seen him implement these combination of abilities at this level in combat.

We KNOW Superman is fast, I don't think anyone here contends with that fact.

Quantifying the "feat" is the problem here and the fact that these abilities have to be shown in combat at the level they've been demonstrated in order for them to be valid evidence kinda puts a damper on the whole line of logic.

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Originally posted by eaebiakuya
If it should, but he dont use in combat, it is PIS.

And Superman fighted with Super Speed against Orion.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think one of the main problems I have with the whole "reading fast" is the fact that it is a rather unquantifiable "feat". I mean, we don't even know how many books he read, was there a mention about how big the library was? How'd he even KNOW that he read "every medical text ever written"? Was he silly enough to waste time and go ahead to read detailed papers about genetic disorders, psychology, dental, STDs and cancers and other unrelated medical fields while Lane lay dying on the operating table just so he can CLAIM to have read every medical text ever written? Or for that matter, what powers did he use in conjunction with each other in order to achieve what he did other than speed. Fast fingers, special vision powers plus eidetic super-memory would probably be the safest bet. But exactly HOW FAST was he here? Again, unquantifiable and not really sure how it'd apply to a combat situation as we haven't seen him implement these combination of abilities at this level in combat.

We KNOW Superman is fast, I don't think anyone here contends with that fact.

Quantifying the "feat" is the problem here and the fact that these abilities have to be shown in combat at the level they've been demonstrated in order for them to be valid evidence kinda puts a damper on the whole line of logic.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by Nibedicus
It should. But does it? Has Superman ever been written using such speeds/abilties before? Aren't abilities supposed to be demonstrated in-combat before we start applying them to combat threads?

Let's take Surfer for example. The guy has shown: phasing, shrinking and black hole creation within bodies out-of-combat. While ALL these abilities individually or in combination can be quite devastating in a fight, it has been determined via consensus here that they can't be used in fights because he's never really used them in combat.

And how exactly would we be able to even quantify that "feat"? What means do we have as a way of measuring what was happening here? As what I said above, too many variables are absent to make any kind of conclusive determination.

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Originally posted by carver9
We know he has super speed. Now we need to see this untaggable speed that people keep preaching because in that same fight, Orion didn't have any issuestagging Superman and looking at everything as a whole, Hulk combat speed>>>>>>>>>DCNU Orion combat speed. Indestructible Hulk has been blitzing people since his first appearance/comic.

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Originally posted by carver9
I remember that showing. Was it the force of their punches that was creating the booms or was it the speed?

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Who said Surfer can't use them in combat? He chooses not to since its not in his character to do such things. Blitzing is in Superman's nature.

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Originally posted by juggerman
The speed he used to read every medical book is more than enough to overwhelm Hulk

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
No, it's called "fighting in character" or CIS/CIP. Many characters don't fight using their top-"feat" level abilities. Reasons can vary from different interpretation of abilities from writer to writer or writers putting in "WTF-feats" for plot/fanservice/story reasons (Surfer blowing up a planet, Superman lifting Earth-level weight, Thor hitting Gorr so hard a far away planet starts shattering) to a written-in character self-imposed limitation of the character itself ("doesn't want to kill" as an example).

I think everyone here knows Superman has superspeed.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
Its not anywhere close to Superman's speed. That's what matters. Not that it matters. Superman is strong enough to KTFO hulk without speed too.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
He has blitzed characters in character. I don't know why its so difficult to understand.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
No, it's called "fighting in character" or CIS/CIP. Many characters don't fight using their top-"feat" level abilities. Reasons can vary from different interpretation of abilities from writer to writer or writers putting in "WTF-feats" for plot/fanservice/story reasons (Surfer blowing up a planet, Superman lifting Earth-level weight, Thor hitting Gorr so hard a far away planet starts shattering) to a written-in character self-imposed limitation of the character itself ("doesn't want to kill" as an example).

I think everyone here knows Superman has superspeed.

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Originally posted by Nibedicus
There has been instances where CIS/CIP has been removed and it was still being argued that Surfer can't use these abilities due to the fact that he's never used them in combat.

Also, I don't think anyone is arguing against Superman being able to blitz, I think it has more to do with Superman using his book reading speed" (whatever that is) based on the comment below:

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Originally posted by eaebiakuya
Dont use speed to avoid punches is "fighting in characther" ? Every time Flash is taged by slow people, means This is "in characther" ?

Super dont use super speed in all fights because the plot. He would beat the enemy in 2 pages instead of 10. It is PIS.

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Originally posted by abhilegend
The only thing that he couldn't do was creating a black hole inside someone since he never created one. Shrinking or phasing are fair game for surfer in CIS free fight.

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Originally posted by carver9
And Hulk at his base, walk around strength is able to KTFO of Superman as well. That's not what the argument is about bro. I'm not even debating with you, find someone else to respond to.