Yes, I have seen the Amazing dunks but Vince Carter he finishes his drives off with. But some of those drives could also be finished off with a regular dunk that a lot of players can do.
Wade doesn't get A LOT of help from the Refs. The only time he actually got some help was in the playoffs. And even then, they were fouls, just the Ref called it on the wrong player.
You have to admit that Wade does get quite a few questionable calls in his favor. There was a giant discrepancy between free throws attempted between Miami and Dallas in the finals. i think one game Wade even had more attempts than the entire Dallas team.
Maybe that was because Dallas shot a bunch of jumpers in the finals? I found it hilarious when Dallas fans complained about Wade free throws when wasn't it Dirk who set the made free throw record in the playoffs? But oh wait, Dirk's fouls were never questionable...
Wade is easily better than Vince. I can't believe this is even a argument. Wade's performance in this last playoffs was the closest thing I've seen that resembled Jordan's playoff greatness . Kobe hasn't done anything like that, Iverson hasn't done anything like that, and CERTAINLY Vince hasn't done anything like that. All three have had their spots of Jordanesque performances, but none have had a substained level like Wade did.
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So not true. yeah, shooters like Dirk who's job it is to shoot, because well that's what they do best, i can understand shoot less freethrows. but guys like josh howard, jason terry, and devin harris all drive just as much as wade. I watched every game of the finals, believe me i know. it's just that they are not as good at selling the foul or drawing contact. Either way, there should not be such a discrepancy that wade gets to the line more times than the whole mavs team, i don't care how many jumpers the mavs shoot, that's simply ridiculous. yeah, Dirk MADE more free throws and had a better percentage, but there is a difference between how many you MAKE and how many you ATTEMPT. And certainly, Wade attempted way too many. The refs were like, "Oh, #41 was in the way of our beloved king, Dwyane Wade. Doesn't matter if he had his feet set, it's still a blocking foul, because he hindered Wade's drive." Not to make excuses, but in general, the refs were on Miami's side for most of the time, especially when it came down to the wire. (Cough...inexistant timeout after 1st freethrow in game 5)
And about Wade vs. Vince, Im not disagreeing with you. I know Wade's better, especially after his outbreak last season.
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Last edited by RecSpecs110 on Oct 30th, 2006 at 04:17 AM
I won't deny that Wade got calls that were in his favor but this is the way I looked at the Finals: Wade and the Heat were easily the more aggressive team concerning taking the ball to the basket and making contact. Teams that do that generally get the calls not just because they are getting to the basket but also they are making an effort. It's like Greg Maddux getting some of the calls that a wild throwing rookie wouldn't get because Maddux is great at pitching on the edge of the strike zone. Wade got calls, sure, but I would take the complaints more serious if Dirk took it to the basket like he did in the SA and Phoenix series and wasn't getting the calls Wade was getting. His driving was non-existent along with the rest of the Mavs, as did Harris do half the driving he did in the Spurs series? They deserved what they got for becoming a jump shooting team
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“As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods, they kill us for their sport.”
Your right, i'll admit that the Heat, especially Wade, gave more effort to drive in than the mavs, but did Wade give that much more to out-attempt the entire mavs team in free throws? That, I'm not so sure.
Which implies that Wade is good at "drawing" foul calls, another sign of a great player. Its not like the refs decided "We're going to cheat," it was because Wade forced them to make calls.
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I never said he wasn't a great player. My quote meant to imply that Wade should get more calls than Howard, Harris, or Terry, but not more than the whole Mavs team combined, because that shows the favortism of the refs. I didn't mean to say the refs were "cheating." I was only joking with that other quote to show what it felt like to watch Wade go to line possession after possession. Wade did not force the refs to call those fouls. The refs could have just as easily omitted the contact, just like they did almost every single fricken time with Mavs centers who guarded shaq, getting elbows in the face when defending him. It's not like the refs need to make the call everytime Wade falls down. It's there job to figure out if the player is "acting" or not. It's ok if they make a mistake here and there. Refs make the dumbest calls and non-calls all the time. But when they make so many calls towards one players favor, then that needs to be re-considered.
No Im pretty sure the calls Wade got were pretty ridiculous.
Wtf are you talking about none substained a level like Wade did? Have you seen Iverson in the playoffs? or Kobe? You obviously havent if you think Wades performance in the finals were better than anything Kobe or Iverson has done in the playoffs.
LOL @ you saying Kobe hasnt done anything like that?
Exactly what is "like that" ? Explain yourself because to me you sound foolish.
I wasn't trying to imply that is what you said. I'm just saying that the fact that Wade is good at drawing and selling fouls is a part of why he got such a great deal more.
To Lord's quote:
I agree that some of them were ridiculous. However, a good majority of the calls were because Wade was doing a good job of drawing fouls. Once he established that he was getting fouled, its more understandable to give him the benefit of the doubt if the refs were unsure of who's fault the contact was. In other words, if you witnessed defenders slapping the arms of a player play after play, and then during another play you saw possible contact, you may assume that it was in the same manner as the plays before.
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Fouls should be called based on what the refs see, not because one player gets so many that the refs should even it out. I'm not saying that is what you are implying, but its hard for a ref to "re-consider" their calls because of the numbers. It was a little absurd, but it happens at times, and in this case it just happened to go against Dallas (keep in mind that I was rooting for Dallas and was pissed myself). I've seen a lot worse calls than what happened in the finals.
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I know, but I watched the whole series, and it seemed like (even after watching multiple slow-motion replays) that Wade was getting every little cheap "ticky-tack" or even non-existant foul in his favor. You know that cheap pump fake move and then when your defender is in the air, you lean towards him to get the foul? Yeah, Dwyane did that numerous times, and I understand most of the time it should be a blocking foul. But Dwyane got used to it so much that he started to jump into the defender and intitate the contact. IMO, that should be a charge. If the defender flys into you, that's a different story, but sometimes his defender, Devin Harris, would jump straight up with his hands up, and Dwyane would jump into him, and the ref would still call it a block. That really pissed me off.
And going back to those "ticky-tack" fouls: yes, they are fouls and they should be called, because it's in the rule book. You can't hold the offensive player, I understand that. What I don't understand is the extreme lack of consistency. If your going to give Dwyane every single fricken cheapshot foul, then on the other side, you have to give the Mavs some too. And did that happen, NOOO sir. You don't even have to watch the game to figure that out, just look at the boxscore.
And yeah, the fouls that Shaq was giving half the time were NOT "ticky-tack" fouls. They were true blue heavy duty fouls, no doubt about it. And there's all this crap about "Oh, Shaq is so huge, so he gets called on so many fouls unfairly." That's just bull, and I can't believe I'm hearing it so often. If you look at some of his offensive fouls, you can easily agree with the refs. And Shaq goes like, "HUH? How is that a foul??? I didn't touch him." Yeah...right, lucky for me, I have the slow-motion replay, and buddy, the camera don't lie. I can see the foul SO clearly. It's like he thinks he can legally use his shoulders to plow over the defense. Yeah, it's basketball, not football.
So, like I said, there was just a lack of consistency. It's not a matter of the refs calling fouls to even both sides. If the calls were fair, then that would take care of itself, because I know there were millions of times miami got away with cheap fouls and even obvious fouls. Well, what can you expect from Three Blind Mice.
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Last edited by RecSpecs110 on Oct 31st, 2006 at 10:31 PM
Just look at what Bell was doing to Kobe all series long. He got no calls, and Wade was getting them all. If Kobe got half the calls Wade got then the Lakers would have swept the Suns.
Wade carried the Heat like Jordan did with the Bulls. Kobe has never done that as Shaq was always putting monster numbers while Kob was second in line during their three peat (perfect example: how many Finals MVP's does Kobe have?). He has had his moments of carrying them but never through a full playoff by himself as the main guy.
A case could be made about Iverson but then he has never won the big one and really his 2001 run had a team that was built around his poor shooting. When has Iverson ever shot almost .700FG% for a playoff series like Wade did? Let alone .500%?
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Last edited by Dr. Strangelove on Nov 1st, 2006 at 02:17 AM
If you think about it, Lebron had a better series vs the Wizards than Wade had against the Heat, and it was his first playoff appearance too, and Wade clearly had and still has a better supporting cast than Lebron does.
And Kobe carried the lakers so many times when Shaq was, in foul trouble, injured, on the court, missing FT's, playing like shit, and he most certainly did it in the playoffs. And exactly how many times has he come through for them in the clutch?
to be honest players now adays are way better than 6 years ago, therefore we will never see anyone dominate like michael jordan. Because every team has atleast 3 really good players
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