No. I'm just saying that Superman isn't an amature when it comes to fighting.
He was trained by Mongul II, Batman, and WW. He even start to use it against Zod (which he stats himself that he had training from both of them).
Which means he's never rusty in combat since he's always fighting.
Yeah it allows him to teleport right in front of a punch, that move will just be a waste of energy.
Supeman has fought people that was class 100 and they still weren't able to move him and they were stornger than ssj3 Goku. And Goku stuggles to push it, not lift it btw.
He raised his arm to charge up the blast, Goku even had time to shoot KI blasts at it, plus the blast was very slow; Superman could do alot damge to him during that time.
Yep, one punch could pretty much end the fight, ssj3 is going to be in alot more pain when hit by Superman then he was against Buu!
Blah blah... No scans/proof and now you're back to a long typed mess madam.
What I did read, was wrong as usual. If teleporting= speed in your world, then I see why you're all off on this.
AND it's "Promise"
Predictable.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Last edited by Avlon on Feb 25th, 2006 at 03:53 AM
Goku had 10 ton weights on each limb and nobody said the planet had 10x gravity. Unless Goku has a speed feat that is above Superman's, he is simply not faster. You cannot fight at light speed and move slower than light. It's not possible. Instant transmission works by locking onto a ki source, then teleporting. It is not true teleportation like Darkseid or Galactus.
As far as MA is concerned, Goku has more training, but Superman has more experience. 1000 to be exact. He's no slouch. Superman can vibrate through all of Goku's ki attacks. If he got caught, he would still be standing tall. He has taken a lot of punishment.
Regarding WW and Superman's fight, Superman choked her from the earth to the sun in no time. She pulled out kryptonite, only to get punched from the sun to the earth. She blacked out from the attack and didn't wake up until she entered the atmosphere. They fought some more on earth. All of that under two minutes. Light can't do that.
Oh, and heat vision will kill Goku. Its hotter than the sun. Ice breath defeated the cannibal planet. I don't think ice breath will kill Goku, it will just slow him down.
Last edited by Femi32 on Feb 25th, 2006 at 04:58 AM
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Last edited by Avlon on Feb 25th, 2006 at 05:41 AM
People keep saying Goku is a faster fighter when his exact fighting speed and traveling speed is unknown. If I pull out a scan with Superman fighting an Imperiex probe or fighting Mongul, people will say you don't know how fast Superman is fighting. The same can be said for Goku. Repeating the same speed fighting sequence since the beginning of DBZ does not make you faster than Superman or light, especially when the DBZ people lack the feats to back up their speed.
Clark in Smalliville moves faster than the eye can see. He can speedblitz a phone out of someone's hands before they know it, he can shake your soda before you open it and before you know it. He can even douse fires without you seeing it and he can throw a football, save someone who is chained up, and return to the football that hasn't even moved an inch without anyone knowing it! Raindrops are frozen to him via bullet time. That does not mean he is faster than light.
Superman can hear a bullet miles away, get cotton, find the bullet and stop it, then stuff cotton in people's ears so they won't go deaf from the sonic boom. That's more than travelling from point a to b. Then there's the FTL feats from the Earth to the Sun and from Earth to Jupiter
Superman is fast with plenty of feats to back it up. Either find a feat where Goku has gone faster without IT or admit you don't know his speed. At SSJ 3, Goku is probably light speed. That's just a guess, anyway.
"Oh, and Goku cannot teleport anywhere and everywhere."
Oly- Around Superman while figthing he can. Moreso he can sense where Superman will be due to his energy.
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"Almost all the "Z" warriors died when Buu blew up the earth.
None could fly off planet in time..."
Oly- Buu is just plain faster?
- - -
"People keep saying Goku is a faster fighter when his exact fighting speed and traveling speed is unknown"
Oly- Faster fighter in -combat speed-. You rarely see Superman even figthing as he was taugh by Monguls son.
- - -
"Blah blah... No scans/proof"
Oly- Want me REALLY to scan later the page about your supossed planet explosion survival? Exactly the one where he was warned about the explosion and got out of there before and not being caugh ?
I mean in this little example, Goku is near a earth shaking blast :
Did he survived the actual explosion too? I guess so, by your reasoning.
- - -
"He was trained by Mongul II, Batman, and WW. He even start to use it against Zod (which he stats himself that he had training from both of them)."
Oly- Yes, he was trained by Mongul. Show me where he was trained in MA by Bats and WW figthing styles. No sparring. Actual training.
- - -
"Which means he's never rusty in combat since he's always fighting. "
Oly- They all fight when they need to. Superman unless he has a reason doesnt go around figthing either.
- - -
"Yeah it allows him to teleport right in front of a punch, that move will just be a waste of energy."
Oly- No. It allows him to teleport anywhere around the area the opponent is, and even more. We`ve seen him covering the distance of planets. Where was it stated that it spent considerable energy?
- - -
"Supeman has fought people that was class 100 and they still weren't able to move him and they were stornger than ssj3 Goku. And Goku stuggles to push it, not lift it btw."
Oly- Goku has fought with Universal treats. (see scans below). And that would still be dealing with the entire weight. Mountain level its and always was top tier. If you want to argue, get me an example of Thing who is below doing a feat like that. Anyone of thing level by strenght alone.
Last edited by olympian on Feb 25th, 2006 at 10:48 PM
Crapolla? Only hundred of planets? Gods able to defeat Freeza with a single blast? Dang. Ok, so hes more tough than i would think at first? What did he do against these guys?
One blast, without effort, fast enough for Goku to acnowelege his only was out was teleporting to another planet.
Yup. Seems like his record its still clean.
Since Freeza these guys have gone against people who could zap planets with -ease- and even more. Theres no way, Superman packs raw power for this. This is pre crisis stuff.
"He raised his arm to charge up the blast, Goku even had time to shoot KI blasts at it, plus the blast was very slow; Superman could do alot damge to him during that time"
Oly- See the scan above. He cleary states there isent enough time to try anything other than getting out of there.
- - -
"Yep, one punch could pretty much end the fight, ssj3 is going to be in alot more pain when hit by Superman then he was against Buu"
Oly- Superman isent Captain Marvel
This one is so bad i wont even make further comments.
- - -
"If teleporting= speed in your world, then I see why you're all off on this"
Oly- You appearantly dont read well. I said and i stand by it that "allows him to be faster" than its opponents. Wich it does.
These guys have great pure speed feats. You have the laps around Earth-taking a nap one, You have in combat speed in the very beginning, Roshi against Kurilin who did several moves, faster than the eye in one second.
More of power? Buu and the kids opened with theyr Ki a dimension portal to get out of the Time Room:
And this wasent the strongest/powerful Buu form either. What about the kids that wer -weaker- than SJ3 Goku as seen they couldnt defeat a weaker form of Buu than the one Goku went against?
No need, I put it up along with the planet exploding in the respect forum, nowhere does it show Supes getting out in time, and the pic shows him being flung by the FORCE of the EXPLOSION itself. The page after shows Braniac PUTTING THE PLANET BACK TOGETHER (A nice feat of it's own).
It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Reading through the DBZ sagas, Goku is nowhere near a match for Supes, although he is still pretty impressive at times.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Last edited by Avlon on Feb 25th, 2006 at 11:20 PM
Speed. You have to be pretty damn fast to catch nuclear fallout and radiation AFTER a nuclear bomb goes off. Then to fuse it and toss it into the sun from the earth AFTER laying in kryptonite sand.
I think all the evidence speaks for itself, anyone impartial to both these characters (not a fanboy to either) can easily see that Supes is on a whole different level above.
__________________
Humans are afraid of the dark.
And yet… At the same time, we’re fascinated and bewitched by it.
Maybe that’s why humans drink the darkness that is coffee.
Last edited by Avlon on Feb 25th, 2006 at 11:34 PM
Aside from the movie, which isn't cannon, no he can't. He only did this around Cell and Buu once. He doesn't just start teleporting whenever he wants.
Or maybe they're not as fast as you say they are.
Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster.
Superman doesn't need to have pre-crisis levels to survive the ki blasts. Black holes, supernovas, galaxy destroying maggeddon, 1 million nuclear bombs, etc.
Last edited by Femi32 on Feb 26th, 2006 at 12:13 AM
Don't thank me. Thank the person who made that site. Reading the first part of the manga is pretty funny. Goku actually thought Bulma's boobs was a butt.
"No need, I put it up along with the planet exploding in the respect forum, nowhere does it show Supes getting out in time"
Oly- Of course not. Only him -already out- when the explosion happened
-just- that. Be my guess. Post it.
- - -
"and the pic shows him being flung by the FORCE of the EXPLOSION itself."
Oly- Correct. And is it the same as being caugh IN the explosion? Goku did similiar with the explosions in those scans.
- - -
"It's obvious you don't know what the hell you're talking about "
Oly- Appearantly the writer doesnt know either, because he didnt wrote the scene -you- first described.
- - -
"Aside from the movie, which isn't cannon, no he can't. He only did this around Cell and Buu once. He doesn't just start teleporting whenever he wants."
Oly- The scans show otherwise. Especially the fight with Cell. And also more than one version of Buu. Even against Freeza elite guard he was already doing stuff -alike-. Around the area he can teleport /speedblitz and attack.
And yeah he could only do it against Cell and Buu. He learned it after the Freeza saga and those two wer the last sagas...
- - -
"Or maybe they're not as fast as you say they are."
Oly- What i said its correct. Buu was faster than them. How much? Thats another thing. How fast you think Gotenks was when he did those laps around the world in no time, with Picollo on his track?. I consider it top tier fast wich is enough to handle Superman with his other abilities.
- - -
"Stil haven't seen anything Goku has done that Superman hasn't speed wise. Unless you provide a speed feat that shows Goku going somewhere or doing something Superman couldn't do, he is simply not faster. "
Oly- I said combat speeds. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Supes -usually- doesnt speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level.
I havent seen him doing impressive stuff in that regard.
- - -
"Superman doesn't need to have pre-crisis levels to survive the ki blasts. Black holes, supernovas, galaxy destroying maggeddon, 1 million nuclear bombs, etc."
Oly- What blast of Maggedon he took? Futhermore, no he doesnt.
Surviving those and still be in top shape to fight someone with that raw power its something else. Or surviving several attacks of this nature, we`ve seen that with only one attack more than one of these guys, could at least have destroyed the Earth.
- - -
"I think all the evidence speaks for itself, anyone impartial to both these characters (not a fanboy to either) can easily see that Supes is on a whole different level above."
Oly- Except all evidence shows hes not nearly as powerful. Hes stronger yes. Faster flying wise yes. But not -better- combat wise, even with speed involved. Neither close as skilled. This last one its his second biggest disavantage.
If this was just a strenght contest id chose Superman. A speed race, id chose Superman. An all out powers allowed contest, i dont favor him at all.
Chosing Superman who doesnt have this raw power based on strenght and speed alone is more biased than you claim me to be, chump.
Then again perhaps you would be someone who would favor Kal even against Thor and Surfer with all theyr abilities for use.
Last edited by olympian on Feb 26th, 2006 at 01:44 AM
Oly- I said combat speed. Not flying speed. Speedblitz type attacks. Your not trying to tell, Supes -usually- speedblitz at high speeds in combat and at this level, are you?
- - -
"The anime had the same scene and Gotenks's nap wasn't that long. He's Mach 632(480,900 mi/hr)."
Oly- Im talking about the Manga. It all happens in an instant. Including the laps, Picollo after them and the nap. And Gotens even claiming he was waiting for him.
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"Can you tell me exactly how fast they are going in combat? That's why it's pointless to say they are faster when feats prove otherwise."
Oly- Several ways faster than a second the very -least-. Roshi and Krillin did that in the beginning of the whole Dragonball saga. One second. No one saw. Several moves. (and it wasent just 5 moves each or something like that).
They -have- to be levels faster than that considering, they totally eclipsed those first long by levels. And even before raditz showed up.
If you ask me. Fast enough to go against Supeman and not being taken easily. Add that to more -alot- raw power and much better figthing skills? Supes has more disavantages here.
Last edited by olympian on Feb 26th, 2006 at 02:05 AM
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