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Silvarus
Mile High Member
 Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
 Hockey Talk...
Alright, 3 most common misconceptions that people keep having...
#1: The Oilers are not a good team, adding Pronger and Peca does not make them a contender because there are much better teams in the West. Firstly, focus on the fact that they have no goalie, then consider the fact that they are in the best division in the west. Vancouver, being the #1 team in the west, Calgary being a top cup contender, and Colorado which is looking washed up but still offers a slew of talent. Edmonton plays 24 games with these teams...enough said.
#2: The Leafs have not done poorly during this free agency because they've signed 3 big name players. The only fault with them is that their wings are weak because they have all their talent at center. They look to be the second best team in the East behind the Flyers unless Hasek has an amazing season for the Sens and ends up shutting down the offense in the East.
#3: People that predict that the Penguins will make the playoffs obviously haven't considered the new scheduling that is in place. The Pens will have to play the Flyers, Devils, and Islanders 8 times EACH!
That means that their shit defense/goalie will have to take on 3 sets of horrific offense not to mention the likes of Atlanta, Ottawa, and Toronto. It is vital to consider that it is defense that wins championships, not a star studded offense so when Gonchar attempts to take on the best offense that the East has to offer, he won't be able to take it on. If anyone wants to see an example of such amazing failure, then all you have to do is take a look at Atlanta over the years averaging an amazing amount of goals per game cuz their offense is sweet but not making the playoffs because their defense takes it from behind.
If anyone disagrees, your argument better be damn intelligent...
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Aug 29th, 2005 05:19 PM |
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DanZeke25
You can't beat me.
 Gender: Male
Location: New Jersey |
Yeah especially because the face my Flyers and the Flyers are gonna own.
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Aug 29th, 2005 10:15 PM |
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Silvarus
Mile High Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
 Fo sho...
Dude, Flyers have been my favorite team for a long time and still are, but just saying that they're going to own just cuz they're you're favorite isn't putting up a valid argument. If any team in the East were better, I'd say so but now its looking like they are the #1 seed, partly because they have the best D in the whole NHL....not to mention Peter.
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Aug 30th, 2005 06:39 AM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
 Gender: Male
Location: |
1) Oilers maybe, it all depends on how they cooperate between teammates.
2)Leafs are not nearly the second best in the East. Boston, Philly and Ottawa(cup fav) are the best. TO's defense has always been suspect, and they didnt do anything to rectify that problem and Belfour is getting quite old and frail. I cant see him playing the whole year, after that happens, bye bye TO.
3) your misconception is that your forgetting about the new rules in hockey that allows offensive teams to flourish. Sure, they might have a bad defense, but their offense will easily handle the load. They are better than most and thier goalies are not horrible, but not superstar. Fluery I feel will flourish and Thiabult is a good backup or spot starter. Remember, 16 teams make the playoffs.
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Aug 30th, 2005 07:00 PM |
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Silvarus
Mile High Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
With the Leafs having a shaky defense, I don't think so because I would certainly want the likes of Kaberle and McCabe on my team.
Moving further, I most certainly have not forgotten about the new rules which will stimulate offense but then you have to think this through. If the Pens have an offensive boost then so will other teams...and that means that a lot of goals will be scored on Fleury, who is untried, or Thibault, who couldn't pull the Hawks into the playoffs. If that is your point, then why not talk about Atlanta who has arguably one of the best offense in the NHL right now...yet I have them being below the Lightning and the Panthers in my SouthEast division bracket.
For new conversational purposes, lest focus on the Western Conferece which hasn't been talked about. A couple of points which I'm going to throw out there which I invite anyone to disagree on...cuz that adds to the fun of the discussion
*Phoenix will be #1 or #2 team in the West (not because of Gretzky) because they have an amazing roster and by adding Cujo, they add an extraordinary goalie (stupid Red Wings fans will disagree with me).
*The Blackhawks will not amount to much because Khabibulin cannot carry the whole team, and besides a star goalie they have no one (Eric Daze can't pull offense out of his arse by himself)
*The Red Wings will fall to an unexpected low this year because they didnt sign anyone of value and they let go of some good players;
*Nashville has leapt up to the status of cup contender because they have an impressive young defense which could wreak havoc upon Western offense; their offense is shaky and Kariya can't do it alone but they make up for it by having an amazing goalie (Vokoun!!!)
*The biggest rivalries in the NHL will circle around 3 contests -
-Flyers and 1 other team fighting for top of Atlantic division
-Vancouver and Calgary (arguably 2 best teams in west) clawing
for the top of NorthWest division
-Ottawa and Toronto destroying eachother for the top of the
NorthEast division
This season will be amazing...and sooooo full of competition!!!
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Aug 30th, 2005 07:26 PM |
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Russianrocket61
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: United States |
There is no way in hell that the leafs are going to be 2nd in the east, if anything they will be fighting for a playoff spot. You put too much enphasis on goalies, Belfour is good and he has his moments but he will let in a couple each game and theyt wont have the firepower to comeback. Not to mention that they are in a division with ottawa, always a stanley cup contender and now with Heatley, and also Boston who has enough talent to do a lot of damage. The Leafs are dead.
Atlanta will also be a stanley cup contender b/c they have a very talented squad. The only question mark is in goal which i think will either be solved or they will really work hard on trading for someone once the season begins. They have enough talent now with hossa and kovalchuk to go the distance. They are my sleeper pick in the East.
Chicago is no where out of it. You're never out of it with a goalie like khabibulin. They also have a very young team that has a lot to prove. Being in by far the weakest division they have a fighting chance. Although they wont be able to overcome nashville, they should beat detroit. Detroit is going to be an upset this year.
Now for the best team, Colorado is definately not going to finish behind Calgary in their division. Vancouver is strong and will prove to be a formidable adversary although i still give colorado the edge in that battle. Calgary is a good team compared to the nashvilles and Kings but no where near Vancouver or colorado. Unless Kiprusoff can be as good as he was during their run, they arent going to go too far.
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Aug 31st, 2005 05:46 AM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
-McCabe and Kaberle are useless. Both make crucial mistakes all the time. Kaberle cant play defense, and its only useful for offense. But Ill give you your McCabe and Kaberle, who else do they have? Oh wait, Aki Berg, Klee, and Colivacco. What a minute, thats the same defense since last season and that was 2 years ago and were shaky back then.
-Atlanta best offense in the league, Pllleasseee, thats a joke right? Hossa and Kovachulk are awesome scorers, but who else on that team can score? Mellanby, Holik and Stefan? Thats pretty weak. Penquins have the better offense than that with Lumieux, Crosby, Plaffy, Leclair, Rechhi. And it doesnt help that Penguins goalies are better than ATL.
-Pheonix wont even come close of being the best in the West. Doan and Nash and Joseph cant carry that team, and Gretzky will probably not do so well coaching. With the likes of San Jose, Vancouver, Calgary, Nashville, Columbus, there is no way Pheonix is near these guys.
-Contridicted yourself. You say Thibult couldnt pull Chicago into the playoffs, then go say the team basically sucks. So whose fault was it? Goalies or team?
But saying Phenoix and ATL will be cup contenders, thats crazy talk. They're is no way they will even be near. I would be surpraised if they make the playoffs.
This is what I see.
Philly and Ottawa or Boston or Tampa
Vancouver, Calgary
The East will be conference this year.
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Aug 31st, 2005 07:02 AM |
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Silvarus
Mile High Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
It's good no know that someone is making a valid argument...
On the Leafs defense issue, its easy to see that most teams have a 2 man defense...meaning 2 good players then the rest are just there...
There's only a few teams who've got a bigger squad like Philly for example which boasts Pitkanen, Rathje, Johnsson, and Hatcher. Kaberele is an offensive defensemen, but is quite effective in that role, while McCabe can contend with the best of them. We'll see how the Eagle plays and that will determine their playoff berth.
Atlanta, my friend, has a deep roster which mixes explosive young talent with a group of well disciplined veterans. The reason why they are a sleeper team, as mentioned above, is that they have had success in the past but little, due to poor defense but with additions such as Modry and DeVries, they might have a chance. The biggest ? is their goalie situation in which you are correct, the Pens are better there. I don't see them as challenging anyone until they pick up a net-minder (WTF, why don't they just sign Dunham or Dafoe!!!)
Now those were just minor notes where we both have a shot at being right...I mean its all speculation...but on the Phoenix issue, you'll choke on your words when the season starts. This is an EXTRAORDINARY team...the likes of which are unmatched in the West
I'd like to direct your attention to the following list of talent which is all amassed on 1 team:
Brett Hull
Shane Doan
Ladislav Nagy
Oleg Saprykin
Peter Nedved
Mike Ricci
Mike Comrie
Derek Morris
Paul Mara
Seon O'Donnell
and...
Curtis Joseph
That is disgusting...I mean honestly, when at the beginning of this year, I took a look at their roster, I almost shit myself. When the hell did they gather so much talent. WHEN?! They have a great offense a bruising defense, and a worldclass net-minder. The only other teams that can boast as much and maybe even compete are Vancouver and mayyyybe Calgary. I'm going to disregard the statement about San Jose and Columbus being a threat because I'm sure you were under the influence of some hallucinogenic substance when you wrote that. You just named 2 of the worst teams in the west, nay, the entire NHL. Columbus is decently packed with a sprinkling of potential offensive talent but its their goalie and D that kill it. Foote can't defend the team alone. San Jose only lost 2 of their best players...(Rathje and Korolyuk), so they won't be going anywhere.
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Aug 31st, 2005 01:52 PM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
Yeah.
ATL was crap last season, and Hossa being added is not going to do anything. Heatley=Hossa. They're still have the same team aside from Devries (who did nothing with Ottawa). Your giving too much credit to Kovuchulk, he can scores craps loads, but thats all he does, he doesnt care about anything else like positioning or defense.
Yah, sure.
Hull is old and not as effective as he was 10 years ago. He's a third line winger at best now.
Saprykin is a 3rd line player, 4th maybe.
Nedved is a joke now, he only plays good with his fellow Chezchs
The two defenseman in Morris and Mara are good, but nothing else afterthem.
Comrie was a bust in both teams he was on.
Really, to be best in the West, you need more than Pheonix has.
Calgary has Inglina, Amonte, Hamrilk, Phinouef, Langkow, McCarty, and Regher.
Vancouver has Burtuzzi, Nasland, Cooke, Carter, Morrison, Linden, Jovo, and the Sedin twins
Sharks have Cheechoo, Marleau, Sturm, Hanna and McCauley (not the best team but younger and have the same amount of players that Pheonix has)
Blue Jackets dont have an amazing season but Nash, Zherdev, Foote, Bererd, Sanderson, Marchant, and Hrdina. Still look the worst team in the West?
ATL wont sign Defoe because he useless, and Durham, well maybe.
And last but not least, McCabe isnt nearly as good as you think he is. He makes a crap load of mistakes all the time that destroy his team, why do you think he's not playing for Canada? And considering TO lost its third Defensemen, they're defense is going to get lighted up.
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Aug 31st, 2005 04:31 PM |
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Silvarus
Mile High Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
I completely agree that Hoss=Heatley but you are completely wrong about them having the same team. Guys like Melanby and Modry did not play for them in 2004 plus the additions of Havelid and Holik may not seem important but they add a new face to this team.
Moving on...
Hull is extremely effective and in my opinion a first line winger...you were making a point earlier about Lemeiux and I didnt say anyting about how old he was and useless....because he's not...just like Hull is still good. Saprykin I dont know about, you're probably right, while Nedved is still a good player maybe not tier 1 but certainly a tier 2 or 3. Comrie is a good player who needs other good players around him to enhance his skill. I mean cmmon, if the guy can shine on in a shit hole team like the Oilers then he can definitely play well on Phoenix.
You are absolutely correct about how good the Calgary roster is although I have no idea who Phinouef is and McCarty blows the big 1.
I never said that Vancouver wasn't a quality team, they have a terrific squad, but Phoenix will be able to compete because they've added a lot of depth to their roster.
San Jose really isnt as good as you say because even with some of those names (btw you forgot Dimitrakos), they havn't been good enough to compete in the West in the last couple of years. They have the same team, nay, a worse team then before so I give them little credit.
The Jackets.....ugh...The ppl you mentioned were decent but in all honesty, they arn't a good enough squad. They have no defense or goalie (Marc Denis is an empty space). The only worse team in the West would be Anahiem...and maybe the Hawks and Oilers. Its tough to say at this point how much the new offense will hurt poorly defended teams but I think the offensive powerhouses like Pittsburg and Atlanta will see a huge dent in their GA.
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Aug 31st, 2005 05:58 PM |
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Russianrocket61
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: United States |
I continue to stick by my point on how the Leafs aren't going to do anything this year. Mccabe is their only good defensemen, Kaberle isnt that good and Khavanov isnt enough to be able to defend against offenses to the likes of ottawa, philly, pittsburgh, atlanta...etc.
Now for Atlanta, I believe that both of you are completely under estimating their potential. Atlanta was nowhere near crap last season. If you dont remember then let me refresh your memory. For the beginning of the season up until the All star break Atlanta was #1 in the whole league. After that they fell apart due to some key injuries that really hurt them, yet they still managed to remain at the top of the goal scoring list, and this was without Heatley by the way. Also if you dont remember, Kovalchuk won the scoring title without the likes of Holik, Mellanby, Hossa, who they've added this year. Hes like Pavel Bure when he was on Florida, dominating the game all by himself. As i said, the goalie situation will be worked out and they will be a strong contender. At least in terms of their division, they are definately the strongest team. Tampa is nothing with khabibulin and Florida is well still Florida. They've added some players to help them out but that wont pull them into the playoffs.
Now for the West, Silvarus has a very good point about Phoenix. They are very strong and Cujo was the missing piece they needed to propel them to the top of the west. Their is no one in their division that comes near them in terms of talent. San Jose is arguably the worst team in hockey right now (slightly better then Buffalo). The only real threat they have on the ice is in Marleau. Sturm, Hanna, Chechoo are weak compared to players like Doan and Nagy. Dallas didnt do much to improve their team and it was pretty bad last year so i dont believe that will change since everyone around them go better. Los Angeles could potentially due some damgae but they alos have problems in net. Anaheim is not going to be a bad team this year. They have a solid goalie and have resigned Selanne along wiht Federov and Ozolinsh.
Now for the best Division, Vancouver is a very strong team who is always a stanley cup contender. Clagary though is not as good as they look. Amonte is old and not the same, Mccarty is a waste of space. Their only good player is iginla and some mediocre players around him. They are an Ok team but not good enough to overtake Colorado. Colorado lost Peter, but still remain a very strong tema considering Peter barely played due to injury last year. Sakic, Hejduk, Tanguay is one of the best lines in the NHL. Colorado will go a long way. Go Avs!
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Aug 31st, 2005 06:47 PM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
Hull is not Lemuiex, never was and never will.
Comrie never shined in Edmonton. Thats why they got rid of him.
McCarty is like Tie Domi, somebody who's worthless, but essential. Trust me, those guys win games for you. Just look at the TO-OTT series.
Hossa never dominated any games. If he did, they would of won the cup last season. Kovochulk did not win the scoring title. St Louis did.
How is Tampa nothing now? They lost one guy. They still have the three best players in the league (aside from Inglina)
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Sep 1st, 2005 06:44 AM |
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Russianrocket61
Junior Member
Gender:
Location: United States |
No one is comparing Hull to Lemuiex. Comrie is not an all star type player but still has potential to be a 20 goal scorer. McCarty and Domi are not going to win you games or series. They will jsut go out and hit people and especially with the new rules they will get a lot more penalties against their team.
Hossa is an all star player who can win games by himself. He scores goals, makes plays. and is a leader on the ice. He is a dominant player in this league. Kovalchuk did win the scoring title, well he ties with iginal and St. Louis for it. Iginla and St. Louis have good players around them to feed them the puck where as kovalchuk had to do it on his own. Khabibulin was the Tampa Bay lightning last year. There is no way in hell that they have the 3 best players in the league. They dont even have one of them. The 3 best are Peter Forseberg, Jarome Iginla, Martin Brodeur. Those are the 3 best players and last time i checked none of them play on the lightning. You can say whatever you want about St. Louis who had an outstanding year but he is nowhere near the top of the NHL. Lecalvier has potential and he is a solid player but still not one of the 3 best as of right now. Thats it, the lightning have no one else. Brad Richards? who played good last year and won the MVP of the playoffs. Wow, congratulations to him but hes still not one of those players like a kovalchuk or forsberg that can make a huge difference.
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Sep 1st, 2005 05:38 PM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
McCarty and Domi dont win games and Hossa does?
How do you explain Toronto beating Ottawa 5 times in a row in the playoffs, especially when Ottawa always has the better teams.
Did you catch the series? Probalby not, because Domi scored more than
Hossa did, and especially when it counted.
Hossa is great, but he does nothign in the playoffs.
Kovuchulk tied for the most goals with Nash, Iglina and StLouis. But he didnt win the scoring title. StLouis did.
Remember in the playoffs, who won?
Thats right Tampa Bay, why? Oh because Lecalvier outplayed Iglina. He was dominating that series.
Richards is the type of player that you need. He broke the record for the most game winning goals in the playoffs. I guess thats not making a huge difference.
And St Louis won the scoring title. What do you have to do be your best player?
Oh god you contridict yourself.
First you say, that Atlanta is going to be the best and were last year aside from injuries. Now you tell me that ATL had nonbody.
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Sep 2nd, 2005 03:22 AM |
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Rade
Movie Master
 Gender: Male
Location: Canada |
People always say stuff bad about the Leafs, but year after year we prove them wrong. Face it the Toronto Maple Leafs are going to the playoffs year after year no matter what.
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Sep 3rd, 2005 08:30 PM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
I dont know.
I can see playoffs, but nothing else.
Goalie is too old and frail, backup is weak, two injury prone centres, and nothing else.
Their defense is weak, (and always has been).
They dont have the same team as 2 years ago.
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Sep 4th, 2005 04:49 AM |
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Silvarus
Mile High Member
Gender: Unspecified
Location: United States |
Wow guys... Breaking news...
Dunham just signed with Atlanta so it might get tricky now...
I dare say, I might consider putting Atlanta as top seed in Southeast divisoin, but then again, Tampa kicks a lot of ass.
I also agreed that Hossa isn't as good as some of you say he is, because with so many good players around him, he would've atleast led Ottawa to a Stanley Cup final. We shall see how both Toronto and Ottawa fare during this season because if they both hit the wall then Boston has a clear shot for the cup. We'll see what happens in the opening couple of games but I think its safe to say that there are 2 teams that have absolutely no shot during this season:
The Sabres and Rangers
They are in amazing divisions and are the weakest teams in each division. They will be at the bottom for sure. This could be said about a couple of teams in the West but there it gets a little iffy. Detroit, Columbus, or Chicago could all be in the bottom spot in Central division while the Northwest could either see Minnesota or Edmonton as the worst teams. The Pacific division is pretty tricky as well because they have many teams with ?'s in front of them. I think Anahiem or Los Angelas will be last but it all depends on goalie play. I'm giving San Jose the benefit of the doubt because Nabokov is proven to be successful yet Giguere could replicate an amazing season and playoff run that he had. The Kings are sitting in the crapper now with 2 noname goalies who'll drive their team down. It's tough to call it but i'm gonna say Columbus, Edmonton, and Anaheim as the worst in the West while in the East i'll say New York (R), Buffalo, and Carolina.
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Sep 4th, 2005 08:11 PM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
Well the thing is, he didnt lead the Sens to the cup. He had more than a couple of chances.
He's like Kovochulk (or whatever), Nasland, and a whole bunch of European players. They score tons of goals and assists in the regular season, but in playoffs, most Canadian players kick they're ass. (maybe some americans also).
Im not talking about all of them.
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Sep 5th, 2005 02:08 AM |
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LinixCobra
Hablo Espanol
 Gender: Male
Location: Yo hablo espanol |
Toronto will whoop all NHL teams and win ahahahahhahaahah!!!
__________________
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Sep 5th, 2005 04:05 AM |
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Smasandian
Smell the Ashes
Gender: Male
Location: |
Um no.
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Sep 5th, 2005 06:43 PM |
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