Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Hiding from zombies
(please log in to view the image)
Did you see this in the other thread? One of the members here emailed Dan Wallace for clarification. This is HIS response. So obviously it is not a canon fact- it's his opinion. And I posted either here or in the other thread that in an official interview, Dan Wallace admitted that he didn't cover all of the material in EU because it was "too much", and how he let KJA work on his own works, and here he says KJA didn't even review this line. So your stance on this is pretty much moot. Even the author of the book admits it was simply his view at the time and he doesn't have all the facts nor the authority to make the claim.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
That is exactly what I saw. And Wallace himself says that when he wrote the line 'most powerful' he meant it as in direct power- i.e. he would beat Ragnos in a fight.
That is what he said in the NEC. IF it can be established that the NEC is an overriding canon source, then that is the end of the argument. Wallace has clearly said it is only his own opinion, but if LFL have given that power to the NEC, then that is the ballgame.
That is why I have said that this is what now needs to be established. Face it- you lost the argument over what the line meant. The only argument now is how much authority the line has.
It is the very fact that Wallace has said it is his opinion only is why Lightsnake still needs to prove that about the NEC.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
Janus, the thing is...his opinion made it into the canon source. Lucas's opinion could be...Chewbacca could kick any droidekas ass, he puts it into the movie, bam. KJA's opinion was Exar Kun could defeat Vodo-Siosk Baas, who KJA didn't entirely create. Tom Veitch's opinion was that Palpatine could cheat death....Dan put it in here and in light of anything overriding it, apparently it goes for now. At the very least, this shows that Marka Ragnos is not considered the strongest by LFL. And Janus, you have to stop thinking the chronology is just a useless compilation: The fact is, reference guides have overridden the source materials and count just as much. the NEC's page at SW.com says directly it introduces new details. And the source materil was written as a historical report, so its accuracy could be considered shady. It changed factors including the schisms, the Legions of Lettow, Sith Empire's birth...
Source material has been overridden before by compilations, the Thrawn trilogy for example was changed from hell and back, the young JEdi knights series-by KJA...
I asked Dan's opinion on the issue and his response:
What is LFL's policy on the canonicity-or 'in the continuity status- of the New Essential Chronology? Would it rate above a book or a game? What's the stance there on official guides?
"I think the NEC would rank on the same level as a book, but on a lower level than the movies themselves. Games can be tricky, since there's so much variation in types of games and gameplay (KOTOR is considered official, even though there's plenty of variation in the way you can play it. Lego Star Wars is obviously considered non-canon.) "
__________________ Thanks to Venificus:
Last edited by Lightsnake on Apr 23rd, 2006 at 03:34 PM
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
I don't have an opinion on the matter. I am awaiting evidence that it can do so. Lacking that, then it remains just that- an alternative interpretation, and the whole issue will be opinion again.
But if it transpires that LFL say that NEC is the primary EU canon source, then opinion or not, it has been enshrined in fact until LFL change its mind, if ever.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
I've been chatting with Dan via IM: gave him KMC's URL and I'll check if I have permission to post the IM convo. Apparently, yes: The NEC counts as much as any book, but things can change-Dan didn't know of things he retconned because a lot was of material LFL themselves gave him, and Dan says even though he put into print, a lot rests on the author's opinion
Basically, as it's in the chronology, it could stand, but it's very subject to change
So then he basically said these things are all interpretive and depend on the author's opinion.
That's the point that was argued from the beginning. This one line does not establish anything with any level of conclusiveness. Again, the LFL does not attempt, nor does it particularly care to, establish a pecking order that would only come into play for versus matches.
Therefore, I'd trust logical reasoning, inference, and deduction far more than a unsupported, possibly subjective and hyperbolic line in a text.
Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Chelmsford, Essex, UK
Co-Admin
Just to repeat what I said in the other thread:
---
Right then, folks, that sorts that out. Nothing is 100% nailed down, so it all down to opinion. No-one can actually claim to be definitvely correct when it comes to EU continuity, instead people can only have reached a conclusion based on factors which are open to interpretation.
__________________
"We've got maybe seconds before Darth Rosenberg grinds everybody into Jawa burgers and not one of you buds has the midi-chlorians to stop her!"
"You've never had any TINY bit of sex, have you?"
BtVS
Last edited by Ushgarak on Apr 24th, 2006 at 11:07 PM
Given the constant claims going around these forums that Sidious is - undeniably - the most powerful Sith Lord there's ever been (as in his fighting prowess, in the context of these arena type battles), I felt the need to have one relevant thread active, where all the conclusive proof can be provided (and be fully elaborated on and substantiated, as well as properly sourced), in one place, if such proof does indeed exist.
__________________ Palpatine is officially The Man!
__________________ Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.
The issue has been discussed and revisited on countless threads and reaffirmed each and every time. Emperor Palpatine is the most powerful of all the Dark Lords of the Sith; he's proven as much in both deed and canon statements. If it's going to be argued again, the opposition has to attempt to refute the issue.
And by refute, I don't mean slapping down "ambiguous!" and expecting anyone to listen to a damn word of it. Anything contrary to the straightforward conclusion (which is that Palpatine is the strongest) bears the burden of proof.
Apr 23rd, 2006 03:04 PM
