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Home » Misc » Computer / Video Games Discussion » Games 'Versus' Forum » Tommy Vercetti, Tony Cipriani, and Carl Johnson vs The Punisher

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The trio of GTA Gangsters/Gangstas 5 31.25%
Frank 11 68.75%
Total: 16 votes 100%
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Tommy Vercetti, Tony Cipriani, and Carl Johnson vs The Punisher
Started by: Jabba the Hutt

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Raijin
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*agrees greatly with Samishe/Sam Z*


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Old Post May 22nd, 2006 05:38 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by IcePunk
*agrees greatly with Samishe/Sam Z*


cool


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Old Post May 22nd, 2006 06:13 PM
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Onikirimaru
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Location: Dirty South, United States

Punisher isnt just a guy with a gun, he has training.

The trio are just guys with guns. They are the top of the thug food chain. They have been involved in mafia shoot outs and car chases. But they are far from experts. Just because Tommy can shoot a sniper rifle doesnt make him an expert marksman. Just because Carl Johnson can pick up two pistols doesnt make him Dante. Just because Tony can point and shoot a rocket launcher doesnt make him an explosives expert. Tommy can swing a katana, but he isnt a samurai. When compared to the thugs and cops that they go up against, these guys appear to be experts. They are extremely talented, yet have no real training.

Let me tell you a story. One day I was down at the paintball course, getting by ass shot up. There was a "pro" team there, the team from the local area that goes out and competes. They had all there gear there and they were just playing whoever whoever was around for some practice. They had all their sponsered gear, with the automatics and what not, and was wiping the floor with whoever, but it was all in good fun. Towards the end of the day a group guys showed up, they were SEALs. After everyone oooed and aaaaed for a few minutes they wanted to play the local tourney team in the woods course, with their guns and they wanted to use markers. The SEALs won. It was cool to see SEALs gank fully equiped guys with markers all solid snake like, and everyone had a good time.

Moral of the story is, the tourney players were fully equiped, and talented enough to stand head and shoulders above me, my friends, and everyone else that got lit up that day. But when that talent got put up against real training, it didnt stand a chance. Lets apply this to the current match up

If....

Talent + Equipment < Training

then we can assume.......

Talent + Equipment < Training + Equipment

Now thats pretty simple, but I realize there is more to the scenario. What about experience?

Franks been in war. He has fought in battles against other trained soldiers. The Trio have been in some tough gun fights, but in the end they were up against other, untrained, simple thugs. Any situation the Trio had been in, Punisher had been in similar situations through his years of experience.

Other enemies?

Earlier, I poised this, saying Punisher had been up against people with more abilies than the trio. I beleive the retort was something along the lines of "Like spiderman? Spiderman is a mutant, we are talking about humans. Punisher has never fought a human that can do more than the trio" But what is a mutant? A mutant is a human that can do more than a normal human. Spiderman is a human that can run up and down walls, shoot webs, is superhumanly fast, and can crack jokes quite easily. Spiderman quite literally takes out thugs such as the trio in only a few panels on a page. 1 Spiderman is worth 100 CJs. The punisher has encountered Spiderman many times and fared remarkably well for a normal human.

Now lets use Spiderman as a constant for comparison.

Spiderman vs Thugs equal to the Trio in strength: Spiderman takes out easily
Spiderman vs Punisher: Punisher hangs with Spiderman for a while

But I dont want to turn this into a Punisher vs Spiderman topic, that was just a tangent at best.

Lets look at resources.

You may say Tommy can pull the entire Vice City mafia against Frank!!! or CJ can get all his grove street OGs after him! However, this is the exact circumstance that Frank thrives in. His whole character is based around the fact that he takes on the mafia and wins. Nothing they can do he hasnt dealt with before. They've sent hitmen, they've made traps, they've killed his family (which really makes him mad I hear) Its literally just another day at the office for Frank.

Frank however, has the Punisher's arsenal. While the trio has command of their, what, 3 kinds of pistol, 3 kinds of shotgun, 5 or 6 types of automatic weapon, and the choice of grenades or moltov cocktail, flamethrower, rifle, and rocket launcher, Punisher has a wider selection. However the trio's weapon appear to have their bases covered, so the edge given to Frank in this situation is slight, it is there, and combined with the countless other edges he has in training and experience, I fail to see how the Trio can take Punisher down. It wouldnt be a walk in the park, it would just be like any other Punisher story arc. Punisher picks target, targets send goons after him, after failure after failure they get ready for a final confrontation, Punisher goes after them in a bloodbath and takes them out after a couple close calls.


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Old Post May 22nd, 2006 08:27 PM
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Sam Z
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Punisher isnt just a guy with a gun, he has training.

The trio are just guys with guns. They are the top of the thug food chain. They have been involved in mafia shoot outs and car chases. But they are far from experts. Just because Tommy can shoot a sniper rifle doesnt make him an expert marksman. Just because Carl Johnson can pick up two pistols doesnt make him Dante. Just because Tony can point and shoot a rocket launcher doesnt make him an explosives expert. Tommy can swing a katana, but he isnt a samurai. When compared to the thugs and cops that they go up against, these guys appear to be experts. They are extremely talented, yet have no real training.

Let me tell you a story. One day I was down at the paintball course, getting by ass shot up. There was a "pro" team there, the team from the local area that goes out and competes. They had all there gear there and they were just playing whoever whoever was around for some practice. They had all their sponsered gear, with the automatics and what not, and was wiping the floor with whoever, but it was all in good fun. Towards the end of the day a group guys showed up, they were SEALs. After everyone oooed and aaaaed for a few minutes they wanted to play the local tourney team in the woods course, with their guns and they wanted to use markers. The SEALs won. It was cool to see SEALs gank fully equiped guys with markers all solid snake like, and everyone had a good time.

Moral of the story is, the tourney players were fully equiped, and talented enough to stand head and shoulders above me, my friends, and everyone else that got lit up that day. But when that talent got put up against real training, it didnt stand a chance. Lets apply this to the current match up

If....

Talent + Equipment < Training

then we can assume.......

Talent + Equipment < Training + Equipment

Now thats pretty simple, but I realize there is more to the scenario. What about experience?

Franks been in war. He has fought in battles against other trained soldiers. The Trio have been in some tough gun fights, but in the end they were up against other, untrained, simple thugs. Any situation the Trio had been in, Punisher had been in similar situations through his years of experience.

Other enemies?

Earlier, I poised this, saying Punisher had been up against people with more abilies than the trio. I beleive the retort was something along the lines of "Like spiderman? Spiderman is a mutant, we are talking about humans. Punisher has never fought a human that can do more than the trio" But what is a mutant? A mutant is a human that can do more than a normal human. Spiderman is a human that can run up and down walls, shoot webs, is superhumanly fast, and can crack jokes quite easily. Spiderman quite literally takes out thugs such as the trio in only a few panels on a page. 1 Spiderman is worth 100 CJs. The punisher has encountered Spiderman many times and fared remarkably well for a normal human.

Now lets use Spiderman as a constant for comparison.

Spiderman vs Thugs equal to the Trio in strength: Spiderman takes out easily
Spiderman vs Punisher: Punisher hangs with Spiderman for a while

But I dont want to turn this into a Punisher vs Spiderman topic, that was just a tangent at best.

Lets look at resources.

You may say Tommy can pull the entire Vice City mafia against Frank!!! or CJ can get all his grove street OGs after him! However, this is the exact circumstance that Frank thrives in. His whole character is based around the fact that he takes on the mafia and wins. Nothing they can do he hasnt dealt with before. They've sent hitmen, they've made traps, they've killed his family (which really makes him mad I hear) Its literally just another day at the office for Frank.

Frank however, has the Punisher's arsenal. While the trio has command of their, what, 3 kinds of pistol, 3 kinds of shotgun, 5 or 6 types of automatic weapon, and the choice of grenades or moltov cocktail, flamethrower, rifle, and rocket launcher, Punisher has a wider selection. However the trio's weapon appear to have their bases covered, so the edge given to Frank in this situation is slight, it is there, and combined with the countless other edges he has in training and experience, I fail to see how the Trio can take Punisher down. It wouldnt be a walk in the park, it would just be like any other Punisher story arc. Punisher picks target, targets send goons after him, after failure after failure they get ready for a final confrontation, Punisher goes after them in a bloodbath and takes them out after a couple close calls.


First of all good post, I admit.
But you are wrong. Firing sniper rifle doesn't make Tommy proffecional. Punking entire VC mafia really makes. You talk about Punisher impressive feats but in the end the only thing he does is killing guys with guns, what GTA chracters do as good as him. But Tommy or CJ are NOT just guys with guns. How can you say that if you really played GTA?

Besides Frank's fight with Spider was PIS, c'mone he hit him in his web-shooters! Spider-man dodges bullets after they've been fired so this makes no sense.


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Old Post May 22nd, 2006 08:42 PM
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The_God
LOOK AT SIG.

Gender: Male
Location: Heaven Dude.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Punisher isnt just a guy with a gun, he has training.

The trio are just guys with guns. They are the top of the thug food chain. They have been involved in mafia shoot outs and car chases. But they are far from experts. Just because Tommy can shoot a sniper rifle doesnt make him an expert marksman. Just because Carl Johnson can pick up two pistols doesnt make him Dante. Just because Tony can point and shoot a rocket launcher doesnt make him an explosives expert. Tommy can swing a katana, but he isnt a samurai. When compared to the thugs and cops that they go up against, these guys appear to be experts. They are extremely talented, yet have no real training.

Let me tell you a story. One day I was down at the paintball course, getting by ass shot up. There was a "pro" team there, the team from the local area that goes out and competes. They had all there gear there and they were just playing whoever whoever was around for some practice. They had all their sponsered gear, with the automatics and what not, and was wiping the floor with whoever, but it was all in good fun. Towards the end of the day a group guys showed up, they were SEALs. After everyone oooed and aaaaed for a few minutes they wanted to play the local tourney team in the woods course, with their guns and they wanted to use markers. The SEALs won. It was cool to see SEALs gank fully equiped guys with markers all solid snake like, and everyone had a good time.

Moral of the story is, the tourney players were fully equiped, and talented enough to stand head and shoulders above me, my friends, and everyone else that got lit up that day. But when that talent got put up against real training, it didnt stand a chance. Lets apply this to the current match up

If....

Talent + Equipment < Training

then we can assume.......

Talent + Equipment < Training + Equipment

Now thats pretty simple, but I realize there is more to the scenario. What about experience?

Franks been in war. He has fought in battles against other trained soldiers. The Trio have been in some tough gun fights, but in the end they were up against other, untrained, simple thugs. Any situation the Trio had been in, Punisher had been in similar situations through his years of experience.

Other enemies?

Earlier, I poised this, saying Punisher had been up against people with more abilies than the trio. I beleive the retort was something along the lines of "Like spiderman? Spiderman is a mutant, we are talking about humans. Punisher has never fought a human that can do more than the trio" But what is a mutant? A mutant is a human that can do more than a normal human. Spiderman is a human that can run up and down walls, shoot webs, is superhumanly fast, and can crack jokes quite easily. Spiderman quite literally takes out thugs such as the trio in only a few panels on a page. 1 Spiderman is worth 100 CJs. The punisher has encountered Spiderman many times and fared remarkably well for a normal human.

Now lets use Spiderman as a constant for comparison.

Spiderman vs Thugs equal to the Trio in strength: Spiderman takes out easily
Spiderman vs Punisher: Punisher hangs with Spiderman for a while

But I dont want to turn this into a Punisher vs Spiderman topic, that was just a tangent at best.

Lets look at resources.

You may say Tommy can pull the entire Vice City mafia against Frank!!! or CJ can get all his grove street OGs after him! However, this is the exact circumstance that Frank thrives in. His whole character is based around the fact that he takes on the mafia and wins. Nothing they can do he hasnt dealt with before. They've sent hitmen, they've made traps, they've killed his family (which really makes him mad I hear) Its literally just another day at the office for Frank.

Frank however, has the Punisher's arsenal. While the trio has command of their, what, 3 kinds of pistol, 3 kinds of shotgun, 5 or 6 types of automatic weapon, and the choice of grenades or moltov cocktail, flamethrower, rifle, and rocket launcher, Punisher has a wider selection. However the trio's weapon appear to have their bases covered, so the edge given to Frank in this situation is slight, it is there, and combined with the countless other edges he has in training and experience, I fail to see how the Trio can take Punisher down. It wouldnt be a walk in the park, it would just be like any other Punisher story arc. Punisher picks target, targets send goons after him, after failure after failure they get ready for a final confrontation, Punisher goes after them in a bloodbath and takes them out after a couple close calls.


If I remember, you could repeatly shoot the rocketlauncher many times as you want(Except if u run out of ammo) in 3 GTA games. Therefore the trio blasts the shit of Punisher. I cannot see how Punisher can dodge so many rockets.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 01:20 AM
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~Flamboyant~
Out of my element

Gender: Male
Location: Reading Harry Potter

@Samishe: Way to understand the entire point of the pist.

@ Kreuger: It takes one rocket to kill three men. Frank is way more experienced with "rocket launchers" than the trio is.

Therefore, I as the thread starter am banning all explosives from this battle, and making it a round match.

Round 1: Whatever firearm they choose (pistol, rifle, automatic)
Round 2: Knife fight.
Round 3: Fist fight.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 02:53 AM
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The_God
LOOK AT SIG.

Gender: Male
Location: Heaven Dude.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
@Samishe: Way to understand the entire point of the pist.

@ Kreuger: It takes one rocket to kill three men. Frank is way more experienced with "rocket launchers" than the trio is.

Therefore, I as the thread starter am banning all explosives from this battle, and making it a round match.

Round 1: Whatever firearm they choose (pistol, rifle, automatic)
Round 2: Knife fight.
Round 3: Fist fight.


Since I don't know what this verses takes place, I will assume Punisher will beat the trio is the 1st round. But 2nd and 3rd? The trio overwhelms the Punisher.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 05:05 AM
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Sam Z
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
@Samishe: Way to understand the entire point of the pist.

@ Kreuger: It takes one rocket to kill three men. Frank is way more experienced with "rocket launchers" than the trio is.

Therefore, I as the thread starter am banning all explosives from this battle, and making it a round match.

Round 1: Whatever firearm they choose (pistol, rifle, automatic)
Round 2: Knife fight.
Round 3: Fist fight.


...

pist?


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 08:53 AM
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Dragoncloud
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sam Z
Yeah, but there was no Tommy.cool
Tommy's not so great, he's just a smart cop who gets lucky in a gun fight, not to mention he's fighting with guys on the streets which would be probably cause for me to believe that those guys just can't aim. it's easy to win a gun fight when you opponent can't aim a gun well enough to hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet away.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 03:58 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dragoncloud
Tommy's not so great, he's just a smart cop who gets lucky in a gun fight, not to mention he's fighting with guys on the streets which would be probably cause for me to believe that those guys just can't aim. it's easy to win a gun fight when you opponent can't aim a gun well enough to hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet away.


You must be talking of someone else, Tommy is not a cop. And he has gunfights not with guys on the street but with whole VC mafia.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 05:16 PM
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Onikirimaru
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Agent Krueger
Since I don't know what this verses takes place, I will assume Punisher will beat the trio is the 1st round. But 2nd and 3rd? The trio overwhelms the Punisher.


Now your saying that the punisher cant even beat 3 guys? Do you guys know who we are talking about here? None of the trio has any form of martial arts training. CJ can visit a dojo and get a couple lessons, but that is still lightyears away from training that Punisher has.

Well, Ive done all I can to demonstrate how and why this isnt a sweat for punisher. Why dont you guys try for once to tell me why the trio wins. Just what abilities to they possess. and "taking out VC mafia" doesnt really effect how this battle plays out. Taking control of a city involves planning and resources that dont come into play in a fight. Oh yeah, and if i remember correctly, the mob boss of Vice City was a freaking MORON. So show me where any of those people have gone up against some of Franks caliber, someone that has a more impressive arsenal of weapons, someone that has taken down dozens upon dozens of crime rings, someone who fights people like the Kingpin and the Russian (who both have taken it to Spiderman), someone that has a good sense of costume design. Flat out explain what abilities and advantages these guys have that are relevant to this situation.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 08:14 PM
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~Flamboyant~
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Actually Kreuger, round 2 and 3 would be the easiet.


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Old Post May 23rd, 2006 10:25 PM
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Sam Z
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Onikirimaru
Now your saying that the punisher cant even beat 3 guys? Do you guys know who we are talking about here? None of the trio has any form of martial arts training. CJ can visit a dojo and get a couple lessons, but that is still lightyears away from training that Punisher has.

Well, Ive done all I can to demonstrate how and why this isnt a sweat for punisher. Why dont you guys try for once to tell me why the trio wins. Just what abilities to they possess. and "taking out VC mafia" doesnt really effect how this battle plays out. Taking control of a city involves planning and resources that dont come into play in a fight. Oh yeah, and if i remember correctly, the mob boss of Vice City was a freaking MORON. So show me where any of those people have gone up against some of Franks caliber, someone that has a more impressive arsenal of weapons, someone that has taken down dozens upon dozens of crime rings, someone who fights people like the Kingpin and the Russian (who both have taken it to Spiderman), someone that has a good sense of costume design. Flat out explain what abilities and advantages these guys have that are relevant to this situation.


Planning and recources? Tommy just took down over hundred armed bastards by himself. And what makes Sunny moron?

Tommy may not know a lot of martial arts but it ain't stopping him from beating the crap of anyone he fights h2h. Hell, haven't you ever fought in malibu club?


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Old Post May 24th, 2006 02:27 PM
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Raijin
Yeah, changed name

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Dragoncloud
Tommy's not so great, he's just a smart cop who gets lucky in a gun fight, not to mention he's fighting with guys on the streets which would be probably cause for me to believe that those guys just can't aim. it's easy to win a gun fight when you opponent can't aim a gun well enough to hit the broad side of a barn from 10 feet away.
WTF are you talking about? Have you even touched the games?


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Old Post May 24th, 2006 07:00 PM
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~Flamboyant~
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Gender: Male
Location: Reading Harry Potter

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sam Z

Tommy may not know a lot of martial arts but it ain't stopping him from beating the crap of anyone he fights h2h. Hell, haven't you ever fought in malibu club?


I'm sorry, but that had to be the stupidest post I have ever seen.


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Old Post May 24th, 2006 07:24 PM
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Sam Z
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Jabba the Hutt
I'm sorry, but that had to be the stupidest post I have ever seen.


What is your problem? Annoyed that your spite thread isn't going the way you wanted it to go? Or upset that Punisher loses badly?


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Old Post May 24th, 2006 08:44 PM
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Raijin
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I'm guessing, both


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Old Post May 24th, 2006 09:59 PM
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~Flamboyant~
Out of my element

Gender: Male
Location: Reading Harry Potter

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Sam Z
What is your problem? Annoyed that your spite thread isn't going the way you wanted it to go? Or upset that Punisher loses badly?

Upset that you are very ignorant to facts, and even though Onikimimaru kicked your ass, and I posted al of those facts which make Frank the obvious winner. And I'm sorry but Punisher would flat out win. Anyone who knows the Punisher and GTA can see that.

What are you talking about it's not going the way I want it to? You're just being an idiot, and posting no facts, feats or logic that in any way shape or form prove that Frank would lose. Your last post that I quoted was the stupidest post I've seen, because you blatantly ignored every good post. "Oo0h Dee FrAnk has MArtial Aurts Burt TomMy Still WHaoops Hiz BUtTzoRRzzXX"


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Old Post May 25th, 2006 03:32 AM
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Onikirimaru
Saikyo Soulja

Gender: Male
Location: Dirty South, United States

Since logic fails to reach you I shall try to type as loud as possible.

PUNISHER KNWS D0 MANNY MARTIAL ARTI S THAT HE CAN BEET PEEPLE UP WIT HIS SHOULACE. HAVNT YOU SEEN HIM WERE HIS TRENCHCOAT IN THE MOVIE? HE BEET UP MOR THN ONE PERSON!


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Old Post May 25th, 2006 03:41 AM
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~Flamboyant~
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(please log in to view the image)


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I love you IceJaw for making me the sig!

Old Post May 25th, 2006 04:14 AM
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Home » Misc » Computer / Video Games Discussion » Games 'Versus' Forum » Tommy Vercetti, Tony Cipriani, and Carl Johnson vs The Punisher

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