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Originally posted by newjak86
The problem is that the rock giants are nothing more than an attack they may be able to move on thier own but its not like they have great intellects. They are not a loophole Digi stated himself that they were ok as soon as he said Loki's dragon clouds things weren't breaking the limits.

Basically if you do this then your singleing out one power in particular and saying that banned powers can work on them. Those powers are banned for reasons and if you allow then to be used in any reason then it is unfair to the team employing them because your singleing out their attack. Thus rises the question of why can't we do it to all attacks against us or why can't we simply effect the enviroment with these banned powers to beat them as we aren't directly fighting them.

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Originally posted by Khellendros
So we should protect the constructs because they are dumb and weak? Nuh uh. If it moves like a team member, and is protected like one, than it IS one.

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Originally posted by TheKahn
It may be important to note that matter manipulation was never banned in and of itself. Only using it to directly affect and opponent's body (the example most often given is the Doctor turning an opponent into a sandwich). This is a herald tournament after all. That being said, Kell brings up a good point; should any constructs be counted as an "opponent" and thus is it protected from direct matter manipulation of it's body?

Personally, I don't have a opinion either way. Digi will come in and settle the issue soon enough. Maybe we should just focus on finding the team's who haven't picked a second character yet so we can move on.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by TheKahn
It may be important to note that matter manipulation was never banned in and of itself. Only using it to directly affect and opponent's body (the example most often given is the Doctor turning an opponent into a sandwich). This is a herald tournament after all. That being said, Kell brings up a good point; should an independant construct be counted as an "opponent" and thus is it protected from direct matter manipulation of it's body?

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Originally posted by Validus
Jesus H. Christmas! This last page is making my head spin. What's all this talk of using powers over the limits to attack the constructs?

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Originally posted by batdude123
Meh, to me it doesn't make a difference either way.

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Originally posted by Khellendros
Not over, outside. Like BFR. Teleport the constructs out of the way, and get to the people who made them. Or transmute them to dust and fly through them.

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Originally posted by Khellendros
It'll make a difference when you've got a cloud dragon flying up your ass and your hands are tied in how you can deal with it!

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Originally posted by batdude123
Who can make a "cloud dragon?" I thought that Shaman could only make the rock giant constructs. However, they don't seem to be that uber.

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Originally posted by batdude123
Who can make a "cloud dragon?" I thought that Shaman could only make the rock giant constructs. However, they don't seem to be that uber.

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Originally posted by Validus
Yeah, I agree. I don't see why constructs would fall under the rules specifically made for drafted characters. That seems like basic strategy to me. If they aren't allowed to be transmutated/teleported then we are treating them like normal characters. Regardless of how weak they are, that shouldn't be allowed at all.

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Originally posted by Khellendros
Loki can. And Loki, as mentioned, is also considered within the power limits. He basically turned clouds into bigass fire-breathing dragons.

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Originally posted by newjak86
It was my impression that powers like Matter Manipulation and teleportation could
A) Only be used one oneself or team or

B) Only used at low level to make things you can use like Constructs made from Earth or Clouds

But not as a way to effect other characters and abilities or the enviroment around the battle

That just the way I saw it.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by newjak86
It was my impression that powers like Matter Manipulation and teleportation could
A) Only be used one oneself or team or

B) Only used at low level to make things you can use like Constructs made from Earth or Clouds

But not as a way to effect other characters and abilities or the enviroment around the battle

That just the way I saw it.

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Originally posted by batdude123
The more I think about it, you shouldn't be able to create the rock giant constructs. It's unfair because you got essentially a moving independently thinking character added to your team. It breaks the 3 vs. 3 rule.

quote: (post)

Originally posted by batdude123
The more I think about it, you shouldn't be able to create the rock giant constructs. It's unfair because you got essentially a moving independently thinking character added to your team. It breaks the 3 vs. 3 rule.