Are you really so blind as to believe the IDF's account with unwavering faith. Is Beirut Airport a potential conduit for weaponry. Possibly. Is that really the reason the IDF has been ordered to attack infrastructure. Possibly, but doubtfully.
The IDF lies.
And yes, I'm a highly cynical scientist. Sue me.
My turn to make a guess, you're one of those people who thinks Vietnam was just peachy keen.
Still hypocrisy. Some nations are expected to abide by the UNSC Resolutions while others may ignore them without rebuke.
Hezbollah militia are not the Lebanese army.
Too bad the Lebanese can't say the same. I don't live in Germany.
Keep straw manning and trying to make it sound like anyone here thinks any violence Hezbollah has committed is at all condonable. Hezbollah are not a country at all. They're a militia. And a terrorist group. Comparing them to Israel's army and saying one's actions justifies the other to break international law with regards to civilian lives is fallacy.
Israel ratified the Geneva Conventions half a century ago. They are bound by it as is every other country that did so. They are in violation of it.
The magnitude and methods of the Israeli assault are disproportionate and are not justified, as has been noted by several of the G8 leaders, excepting of course for W hogtied by his religious right.
Of course this is how Israel normally operates, so it comes as no surprise.
Israel has now killed around 200 civilians. Approximately 15-20 civilians for each Hezbollah militant.
You'd prefer global anarchy?
Nope not gung ho about Vietnam, not very excited about Iraq either. You guessed incorrectly, oh well.
The Hezbollah aren't the Lebanese army, YAHOO. Ok well then now that, thats been said for the 10th time. The Hezbollah are however a part of the Govt that is taking action with their own milita (terrorists.) And your right some nations abide by the UNSC Resolutions and it wouldn't appear to be Lebanon huh? Lebanon (Hezbollah) crossed the line both literally(border) and metaphorically. So lets say the UN just punish's Israel and holds them accountable, where is Hezbollah in all this or Lebanon?
If you feel I'm "straw manning" then stop conversing. I have not said an "eye for an eye." What I have said is the Hezbollah has been attacking Israel and no one stopped Hezbollah, Israel paid that price. Now Israel is taking out Hezbollah and the price being paid is due to the Lebanese gvot being ineffective and inept. Who's to blame, the country protecting it's citizens or the country who has no control over who it's citizens attack?
Um, Israel has been attacked NUMEROUS times by it neighbors for decades. How Israel operates shows far greater restraint then it's neighbors for years. How do you differentiate civilian from Hezbollah? Do Hezbollah wear a badge, probably not. So how are they saying who's who?
Then one would think you would see some parallels.
And after hearing that for like the 20th time and once more failing to address your hypocrisy. Let's reiterate Lebanon (not Hezbollah) is not composed entirely of Hezbollah. Your hypothetical is moot. Israel has never and will never be punished by the UN for its numerous violations as long as the US holds sway.
Leading question. Who is to blame for the violence against the Israeli's, Hezbollah militia and the Lebanese government's inability to reign in Hezbollah. Who is to blame for violence in Lebanon causing large numbers of civilian casualties, both Hezbollah and Israel with it's disproportionate assaults. Is Israel justified in its action, still no. Convoys of fleeing civilians have been hit, and the IDF comes out with its cliche lines. Canadian nationals have been killed, is Canada now justified in launching an assault on Israel?
Ask Reuters. Yes, the IDF shows so much "restraint", their "restraint" is as well documented as their "regard" for civilians.
We are never going to see eye to eye on this. There is no hypocrisy in Israel defending it's borders from being attacked. People keep throwing the term reasonable around like it holds some value in war, no it doesn't. Since when is war reasonable?
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said diplomatic efforts were under way, but that a cease-fire would be impossible unless Israel's three captured soldiers were returned unharmed and Lebanese troops were deployed along the countries' border with a guarantee that the Hezbollah militia would be disarmed." Thanks Yahoo News!
Wow there we go, very reasonable terms for a cease-fire.
Israel does its best to limit the ammount of civilian casualties and judgeing by the ammount of ordinance they have dropped on Lebanon id say they are doing a decent job. Hezbollah sets themselves up in civilian areas, they launch missles from civilian ares because they know that it makes it hard for Israel to target them. Also it makes Israel look bad for the civilian casualties. So should Israel allow Hezbollah to continue launching missles at them cause of Lebanese civilian casualties? Absolutely not.
If the Lebanese people want to blame someone for the death toll blame Hezbollah for drawing the fire into civilian areas. Hezbollah is one of the most recognized and dangerous terrorist forces in the world, Israel attacks with the intent of destroying targets that cause harm to their country while avoiding a large ammount of civilian casualties.
Unlike Hezbollah, Israels military structures arnt smack dab in the middle of civilian areas. So when Hezbollah fires missles at Israel their intent is not to knock out key military structures its to inflict as many civilian casualties as possible. Israel cannot stand by while this happens, Hezbollah needs to be dealt with.
Isreal is on occupied land, Totally. This country was Palastine before the Jews were taken there after the 2nd world war, and they took over the best parts.
Lets face it, the Islamic folk arn´t going to be happy untill Isreal no longer excists. And after that they´d probably fight still over some internal Muslim thing.
The only solution here is to flatten the whole middle east, by directing a none earth destroying asteroid into it. Or using a massive non fallout nuclear bomb or two. Ok loads of non combatants will die, but they are dying anyway, in fact civilians are being targetted by both sides. Seeing as this will go on for centuries the ammount of life lost will probably be the same in the long run. Then there´ll be a big crater there which can be turned into a tourist resort after it is filled with water.
All the remaining Jews can have a bit of america as thier state seeing as the US likes them so much, death valley maybe. Then after They have taken over half the US we can view another civil war in 50 years. I wonder if the US freedom fighters will be viewed as terrorists!
Yes, because airstrikes on the other party's civilian infrastructure with implicit intent to "take the country back 20 years" and killing the very soldiers you want to disarm the militia and be deployed along the border certainly paves the way for a ceasefire.
"About 230 Lebanese people have been killed since then - the vast majority of them civilians, but including about 30 soldiers. The number of Hezbollah fighters killed is not known." BBC
Lol, in science class did they also have lessons on how to remain a cynical ass? Yup I remember what they said about knocking them back 20 years when they first started the bombing. Casualties occur, thats the nature of war. That said unfortunetly they do occur and for the number of bombings Israel has kept civilian loss to a minimum considering the damage Lebanon has sustained. To bad Hezbollah deliberatly targets civilians in war and in peace, good for them.
Once again how do you identify a Hezbollah soldier vs a regular civilian? I am curious seeing as very typically terrorists don't walk around parading their "terror gear." So the actual number of civilians killed could represent a large number of Hezbollah. Since Hezbollah would typically look to hide their casualty count anyway it's not like you're going to get a very accurate number. Oh well we know what's required from Israel for a cease fire huh.
"Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said diplomatic efforts were under way, but that a cease-fire would be impossible unless Israel's three captured soldiers were returned unharmed and Lebanese troops were deployed along the countries' border with a guarantee that the Hezbollah militia would be disarmed." Thanks Yahoo News!
There we go, all we need is for the Lebanese and Hezbollah tocomply with that and cease fire here we come!
Last edited by Soleran on Jul 19th, 2006 at 12:34 AM
Yes, it was part of the my 2nd year genetics paper.
The BBC article distinguishes three groups, Lebanese uniformed military, civilians, and Hezbollah. Even if the ratio of civilians to militants was 2:1, and it is undoubtedly higher, it is still to high.
Israel has stated its military operations would not end until its goals were reached regardless of diplomacy.
Livni has said diplomacy in the form of a ceasefire isn't an end to Israel's operations instead "alongside the military operation that will continue. The diplomatic process is not meant to shorten the window of time of the Army's operation but rather is meant to be an extension of it and to prevent a need for future military operations."
Israel has not ruled out a ground invasion and until recently has been cold towards any international force. Israel has also indicated it will step up its attacks, as the U.S. may not be able to continue to resist international pressure upon them.
Gender: Unspecified Location: With Cinderella and the 9 Dwarves
Which still doesn't change that Israel is leading an unjust war and should be stopped (I'd fancy an US Invasion...seeing as they actually do something to justify it not like this Saddam dude)
LoL please tell me the times of a "justified" war. The person who decides what is and what isn't justified usually isn't the person facing the transgression at the time.
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Jul 18th, 2006 05:24 AM
