Good post.. Only problem I have is Sidious being described with "He knew every technique, from the ancient times and now". It makes no logical sense and I can only assume it doesn't deal with EU, because that would contradict everything within the EU.
Yes, I know, but we're facing three author opinions in this mix...Anderson's is that it's either Kun or Palp, Veitch is that Kun's a delusional adept next to Palp and Dan's opinion is that Palp is the strongest ever.
Nai, the thing is, those are Sadow's amulets...if it's just carrying a message or summoning the spirits of the Dark Lords, considering those were Freedon's amulets that he got from Sadow...considering Sadow's apparent reclusive and rebel nature, why would Ragnos be helping him with his amulets or giving them to him? Sadow didn't take great pains to keep his discontent hidden from what we've seen.
The odd thing about Nadd is he says he's powerless in his current state and Ommin was the one who called him back, so as a ghost, he must be relatively young compared to Exar and Ragnos...chalk it up to EU inconsistency? Though, Nadd didn't help keep Arca imprisoned...it's a possibility force ghosts can affect others in 'places of power-like Korriban' or affect those on the Dark Side.
There's still Visas Mar, Nai...and Brianna, and Mical, and Atris and the Exile and Revan...and where was it said that tat place is the only source of that knowledge? Palpatine was able to learn it, for one. And it's not a matter of a retcon there, Palpatine was the first person to actual use Force Drain in the EU...And since we do know that there were techniques invented to counter...remember, the NJO discovered a whole new level of the Force, and Yoda was said to know a defense against pretty much everything. It's also possible some of the Sith survivors-and according to the NEC some did indeed survived- turned to the light and brought their knowledge with them.
Not at all...artificial flesh is simply weaker than actual flesh. Palp just regarded it as a temporary issue until he got a nice long-lasting body and got down with that 'dark side God' routine.
There's only one small, tiny issue: Palpatine invented his instakill. It's instantaneous, too. And there's zero proof it was done with knowledge taken from the Ancient Sith. Let alone proof that Ragnos can perform a counter on it since he'll never have experienced it before and have no knowledge on it.
The issue is, Nai...unlike Tavion, Ragnos has not been travelling to places of power throughout the galaxy...and would Ragnos even HAVE a reason to use it? Palp can use force drain himself, for one.
Sorry lightsnake but in a versus fight, the text doesn't mean anything no matter what you think, end of story..
And Nai, I have one question since you seem to be a lot more knowledgable about this than myself. I think it is a possibility that the spirit that told Nadd that Kun was ready, is not the same that branded Kun and Ulic. Meaning one of them is possibly not Marka Ragnos.
Actually, definition of hilarious is that it isn't true.. And who is everyone? You and a couple of unintelligent nerds? I don't see a problem with the smart people on this forum.
Registered: May 2005
Location: .::The Anti-Fanboy Confederation::.
Excuse me Lightsnake, but you should do your homework before starting to debate with me. Kun carried two amulets and even if both belonged to Sadow (and this is unknown for the second amulet) - Ulic's amulet didn't.
Possibly it's a huge storyline f*** up but well - than you should blame Anderson and Veitch and not me. The narration clearly says that the amulets have been created to carry a message over the centuries and I'm not going to argue that.
And it would again be illogical what you assume in the last sentence because Ragnos was on Korriban and he surely didn't display anything in the same league of Nadd flooring Vodo on the other side of the Galaxy or Kun frying Gantoris.
Visas didn't know the ability as she said mulitple times herself. Mical ? Funny. Where would he get the knowledge from ? The same question can be asked about Atris. And no - the Jedi could have went to Korriban, summoned ancient Sith spirits and asked them about the ability. How likely is that ?
Excuse me but the only person shown to properly defend himself against force attacks on "planatary scale" (so to say) is DN Luke. And this is what I was talking about. May I remind you that Ragnos sceptre drained places and possibly entire planets and that a single attack with only some parts of the force energy of a planet (Sekot) was enough to knock out NJO Luke and his "team" ?
I guess you should get yourself some article about "cloning" and read it. Then you can think about the fact that Joruus was created in the early days of the Clone Wars and lived until 9 ABY without getting "corrupted" by the powers he was wielding or suffering other effects from the fact that he was a clone / a Dark Sider.
This is simply stupid lightsnake. If you develop something you can't do it without using knowledge you archieved before. You can't "invent" gravitation without prior knowledge that things are falling down.
And countering force abilities in the SW universe ? Kun outright resisted the Wall of Light attack by Odan without knowing it or ever seeing it before.
And I like to point out that there is zero proof that Sidious is even able to perform such an attack against a force user sucessfully.
The issue is, Lightsnake that nobody would create a weapon that he can't charge, not that it even matters, if the creator of said weapon lives in an Empire filled with planets and places to drain force energy from. If Vader's fortress is a valuable place to drain energy from what do you think a Valley filled with tombs of Dark Lords is ? If Vader's fortress can be used for it, Ragnos could have used his living-room to do the same logically.
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"Dear God, what is it like in your funny little brains?"
Very good post Nai but one thing. Kun clearly DOES state that the amulet is the "mate" of his amulet, so apparently they are related to each other one way or the other, whether directly or indirectly.
Generic Hero, the best debater here imo belives you to be td. I, who am a genius, believe you to be td. So do Escape and Lightsnake. There are at least four intelligent people.
Escape? Nope, GH? Nope? Best debator? While I don't disagree because I haven't seen him, your credibility and opinion mean nothing. You are not intelligent, not by a long shot so don't give yourself that unwarranted credibility that helps you sleep well at nght..
Nai, where Ulic's amulet come from? The Ketos gave it to him...where'd THEY get it from? Nadd...ok, where could Nadd get it from? Sadow, more likely than now. Either the Onderonian family created it...there's an anachronism, no .
Alright, why don't we chalk it up to a plot error?
It's not unlikely that Sith returned to the JEdi following the massive slaughter...I don't Visas didn't know the ability, but she experienced it...so did Atris from the whole Katarr thing.
I recall the sekot thing, though when a planet's attacking you, it's a bit different. Thing is, Palpatine can also use things on a planetary level...We know Tavion drained the energy from certain sites, but where did she drain planets?
Possibly because Joruus was isolated, totally insane-the fact his template was a psychotic borderline darksider didn't help...
The differences: Palpatine is stronger than Odan, he's not trying a lightside attack, and Kun was still thrown head over heals. And by the same token, Nai, there's zero proof Ragnos's scepter would work on another Dark Sider succesfully in any case. And, actually, Kun's master WAS Vodo...do we know for certain Kun never saw the wall of light? Or that the effect would be same if a dark side attack that Marka had never seen before from someone on equal or superior raw power footing than him? There's an obvious power difference betwene Kun and Odan...even if Marka survives it, is he still going to be totally fighting fit? Would he be able to react in time? Evenm if Palp used pre existing knowledge, this is a new technique
considering Korriban's dark side energies are still intact, I don't see even ragnos getting away with leeching out the holiest place of the Sith. Of course he could charge it, but given his stranglehold, would he need to?
Zero proof that his scepter would work on another dark sider? That's just another attempt to discredit Ragnos lightsnake. The scepter can drain the force from planet upon planet, entrust the dark side in non force sensitives, but all of a sudden it doesn't work against dark siders? Please.. There's too much logical reasoning for you to argue this point. And yes I at first saw Odan Urr using a force push on Kun, but if you read the commentary it clearly states that it is "The same technique he was teaching Nomi", which would clearly be the wall of light. There are many reasons as to why it didn't work, whether the ancient sith had a defense for it and Kun learned it, or Urr was simply too old and not powerful enough to use it on someone as powerful as Kun.
Well I don't know about the corebook, but I have the darkside sourcebook on my pc, and I would remmber it saying something so bold. Do you know whereabouts it said it, profile perhaps?
I found it in a previous thread, and on darth glentract's site. Why would he or whoever wrote it make it up, unless Lightsnake conveniently left it out.. It's either from the corebook or sourcebook..
Jul 18th, 2006 04:52 PM
