she doesnt have to say it u can tell how she acts and stuff.....and yea i agree u deff. have to see the movie more then once like the more u see it the more you can read inbetween the lines and the unspken stuff but you know its there and its greattt =]]
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Yes but she also picks up on little Jack traits the hat (which symbolizes more than meets the eye) and she even raps something around her right hand like Jack does.
----------------------------------
My hat theory lol.
The loss of his hat is significant (very important part of him)..and the fact Liz keeps wearing a similar one to him from the moment he first sees her is also significant..her character didn't need a hat at all so it could symbolise something else. the hat stands out when she wears it..its meant to catch the audiences eye. In my opinion its no coincidence that Jack's character is missing his hat throughout the movie and Liz's charcter is basically wearing it. Its like a puzzle piece thats meant to fit together.
So basically to start with he's loses his beloved hat and it makes him feel incomplete. He wants it back to make him feel complete
The part in Tortuga where he didn't feel right trying on all the hats has a double meaning. Its also the point in the movie where his character is in a great state of confusion over what the compass is telling him he wants..he thinks its saying lots of different things (when its actually pointing to liz) He leaves with no hat..he didn't find the right one. He feels incomplete still.
Then hello hello... Liz turning up looking like him but wearing a hat similar to his missing one symbolises that SHE is the missing part of him.
notice he stops thinking about the hat after he meets her. And also the compass problem is solved (or so he thinks)
At the end after he gets what he wants from Liz strangley enough his hat comes back symbolises that he's finally found the missing part of himeslf "coincidently" when LIZ just came down to his level by becomeing a full fledged pirate.
muahahahah
hidden meanings everywhere.
This film is massivly based around little "coincidences" that have a much deeper meaning.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 26th, 2006 at 12:17 AM
But in his defense...let's put these things together. Why would someone possibly like "Will Turner?" Why would someone choose Will turner over "Captain" Jack sparrow?
Will Turner is much more active in Pirates 2 then Jack was. Whilst Jack was running away from monsters and pirates, Will was off fighting. Will is a romantic - fighting for the woman he loves. Jack is in it all to save his own ass. We've been over this.
Will Turner aims to save Elizabeth from death. This is where Jack Sparrow tricks Will into the hunt for the chest. What does "good guy Jack" say to will if Davy Jones catches him?
And I quote:
"Tell Him that Jack Sparrow sent you to settle his debt."
Translation: "Tell him to kill you instead of killing me."
Will Turner is the hero, whereas Jack is the drunk bumbling idiot. In the climax of the movie, Will Turner and Elizabeth are left on the Black Pearl with Jack's crew. They attempt to save everyone's lives and fight the Krakken. Will courageously leads them all to injuring the foul beast.
Ah hah the Hat theory must love the hat theory. You must have studied films as well right? I studied this through Film Noir and we pointed out things like this too that make up who characters are and how the story develops.
Quincy Archer, I am sorry to say but everyone is going to EAT you because you said that lol.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Yeh I did learn film studies for 3 years in college and passed ..I learned never to overlook things that seem strange/significant. they ALWAYS mean something. Its just sussing out exactly what they mean thats the hard part.
She wore that hat to hide her girly hair. Because she wanted to look like a boy. She continued to wear the hat, probably because...well it's what a hat is for - sunlight.
----------------------------------
wow. I think you are reading WAYYY too much into it.
Again her character wore the hat to hide the fact that she was a woman. Characters just like their hats (Indiana Jones, Puss in Boots) it isn't anything special. I'm sure Jack just didn't like the hats, not like he was "searching for the other half of his soul."
And I'm pretty sure once Liz showed up the reason he stopped worrying over his hat was because there were no more hats, since he left the saloon.
Quincy Archer we are film studies students, we know what we are talking about. I dont mind a debate but this is getting rediculous. If I can find my old notes from Film Noir I would be able to explain why Lovely One has all these theorys using objects.
In fact I remember some things.
The Gun in Film Noir represents the masculinity of a detective. Take away his gun take away his masculinity. My teacher said exactly that.
Jack's hat= his full status of a pirate, without it he is incomplete. Take away the hat you take away a part of him maybe not masculinity but something else. When finds it he realizes what he is missing in his life (Meaning when he sees Liz wearing the hat).
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
Ok Liz loving the pirate life..means she is going to love the man who resembles the pirate life best to her: Jack. Its only going to fall naturally.
aha..yes Will was more active...but sadly it was not over Liz. It was ALL about his dadda..he completley forgot about his "caged bird of a fiance" back home. And Yes its no coincidence that Liz's last name is Swann and she resembled a beatiful swan trapped in a cage (prison) whilst with Will ..longing to burst free. Jack also has the last name of a bird "birds of a feather..fly together" "Turner can burner" for all I care.
Will hangs upsideown somewhere when Liz really needs him..not once in the movie did Will come to her aid..he forgot about her and when ever she needed him he was sidetracked worrying about other things. So this gave her the chance to fight her own battles and she is pretty good at it too. Jack comes to her aid when she REALLY needs it during the movie and she clings to the leg of her hero as he does so.
Yes Jack escaped..but the honest streak ran through. I believe that he came back to save Elizabeth more than anyhone in that scene..that whole moment where he comes back was ALL about those two..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 26th, 2006 at 12:33 AM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
Yeah, why do you like Will so much? I guess like all men you just don't get what women see in a man like Jack Sparrow, therefore, you can't understand Elizabeth's attraction to him. Yes, she has loved Will all her life. But that's why she's denying her true feelings, which the compass reveals (it points to Jack). She believes that she loves Will, it's expected of her - but Jack represents everything she longs for : freedom, her craving to act on selfish impulse, she has had this obsession with Pirates before she met Will - remember she is singing the Pirate song as a young girl before they see Will. Her father says he is concerned because she finds Pirates fascinating.....that's why I was so convinced that she would somehow end up with Jack even in the first movie, so was very disappointed when that didn't happen....And remember the dreamy look she get on her face in the first movie when her handmaiden says,"That must have been terribly frighting for you, being threatened by that Pirate and all that." And Elizabeth has this little impish smile on her face -thinking about Jack - yes, frightening. Even then she has a crush on Jack. But at this point she still believes she loves Will because that's what she's thought her entire life....
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
AHA!! the hat actually changed! Firstly it was a straw hat when she was trying to hide..then all of a sudden with no explanation she is wearing a black hat that looks exactly like the missing one of Jacks as soon as she meets him..
no no no the point was that the trying on of many hats resembled the state of confusion he was in. Liz turns up and the confusion dissapears for him. and she is also wearing the hat.
and yeh..We are film studies students..we are taught that every good film has hidden meanings in the mise en scene..Just because you cant spot it doesn't mean it's not there. EVERYTHING in a movie has to have significance. We are trained to spot what they are..thats why we study films. We learn that everything that seems slightly significant usually DOES mean something to whats really going on with the plot. The hat is a perfect example.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Jul 26th, 2006 at 12:39 AM
Yeah, tones of students study film to be able to write their own scripts and even produce films. I go to a school where film is VERY popular and these students know how to hide hidden meanings within their scripts so dont turn these theories away just because you think we are getting WAYY too into it. We studied the deeper meanings to be able to write our own films and maybe become dependent directors.
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
\
If this is true, then why did she continue to wear the hat on the black pearl and on the island - everybody on the Black Pearl and the Island knew whe was a girl - espeically with her pretty blond tresses hanging down...
What are you talking about? This debating is going fine? What about it is "ridiculous?" Stop using the same evidence.
When does she love the pirate life? I wasn't going to say this before because I thought you're arguement was well put together, but Keira Knightley is joking around with the interviewer in that clip. They were talking about fetishes and stuff.
No I'm afraid you are wrong. He does EVERYTHING in that movie for Elizabeth. He goes ALL OVER THE PLACE just to save Elizabeth! Do you think he just decided to "leave" Port Royal? Did he say "You know what? I think i'm gonna go find my dad."
Saving his father was an added side-quest. Why do all of you keep acting as if that is all Will was thinking? Because thats what he fought over in the ending fight scene?
Will hangs upside down in the movie attempting to find the man that caused the death sentence for both Will and Elizabeth - Sparrow. What do you mean he didn't do anything while she was in need? Of COURSE he was doing something while she was in need - HE WAS GETTING JACK! THAT WAS THE AGREEMENT! "Get Jack and I'll set you and your fiance free." Will did the only thing he could to save Elizabeth!
Ah so you "believe" it's not fact. Jack went back to help save the rest of his crew. I will say that it was because of Elizabeth's speech. And I'm pretty sure that scene was about attempting to fight off the krakken and save everyone.
...I already posted that. Look up.
Why does everyone think that Elizabeth is this feisty adventurous girl? She was the snooty rich chick! she was SCARED of pirates! Not a pirate lover! In pirates 1 she never "wanted to break free of her cage." She was friggin kidnapped and then wanted to save will. It's not "expected" for Elizabeth to love Will. It was "expected" for her to love Norrington. To quote your words guys "She broke free of her cage by marrying the blacksmith - Will!"
KMC Community Forums
Jul 26th, 2006 12:05 AM
..I learned never to overlook things that seem strange/significant. they ALWAYS mean something. Its just sussing out exactly what they mean thats the hard part.
*raises hat to you* 
