Oh, and on the topic of enhanced strength = enhanced speed, I wanted to point out (but got disconnected from my internet...grrr) that there are multiple types of strength, so one doesn't always imply the other.
For example, a lightweight boxer will be able to generate more explosive power with a punch, then a heavy powerlifter. Even though that lightweight boxer would never even get NEAR that powerlifter's bench max.
It has some to do with technique, true, but it also has to do with the fact that there are many different kinds of strength, and speed.
I've fought sprinters before, and long distance runners. Neither had any kind of noticable speed advantage, even though, I myself am a weight lifter, a boxer, and a wrestler.
Meh, one doesn't always indicate the other. Especially when you are comparing pulling a truck, to fighting.
I eat tuna all the time. Lets use that as an example. A can of tuna is 6 oz. and about 1.5 inches tall, 3.5 inches wide. Lets see, the volume would be pir^2h. Thus, about fourteen and a half cubic inches. The bed of that truck looked to be full to about 6 foot x 6 foot x 8 foot. 497,664 cubic inches. 34,322 cans of tuna fish. Times six ounces. 205,930 ounces. 12,870 pounds. About 6 and a half tons. Plus the weight of the truck, let's say a few tons.
Obviously, it wouldn't ALL be tuna, and wouldn't be packed to bursting, but this can be used as some sort of guideline. I would say the entire thing weighing anywhere from 5-10 tons would probably be accurate. But pulling five or ten tons, even if the back wheels were locked, or the axle dragging, doesn't equate to lifting as much.
see sorry Alfheim... but unfortunately there is just no winning this kind of argument with spiderman fans... this is why I don't like spiderman fans... (not talking about you marvel prince.. you're alright more often than not)... they are FULL of double standards when they see something they don't like...
-we can't use hero vs. hero examples as evidence because they both have to look good for the sake of the story
-we can't use hero vs. villian examples because the villian's always destined to lose
-we can't use random feats because the hero is always supposed to overcome random (bullets, rockets, collapsing building) threats and the comic company wouldn't kill a character in such an unispired way...
-bullets and lazers are the biggest jobbers in comics tho they're not worth using
-characters can always be argued to have been holding back no matter how much evidence is lacking to support the claim or evidence exists TO THE CONTRARY.
- high end feats can be called PIS, no matter how many times performed
-low end feats can be called PIS, no matter how many times repeated
- stats only count when they fit the fan's perception of the character... if they don't then they're innacurate (i.e. namor)
so then what DO we use to give these battles a winner?
I mean they have stated attributes and abilities but the fact is if those stated limitations aren't really they're limitations over and over again in the comics then the problem of credibility arises.. which is more acceptable as evidence.. which is less...
going by described powers we can clearly see that spiderman is superhuman and cap is a human but described powers don't take into account important things.. for instance... described powers don't take into account the fact that captain america defies human limitation in almost 90% of his feats and showings.... so then should these descriptions still count? darkcrawler doesn't seem to think so and no one argues with him there.
these descriptions also don't indicate to the extent which some powers work.. okay we know that spiderman is fast and has a spider sense.. that doesn't automatically mean he could dodge every bullet coming at him from 6 gunmen at pointblank... it just means he would know that the danger was coming and try to move out of the way but probably still get hit by the faster than sound bullets coming at him... the only way we know he can do what we know the spider sense allows him to do is through comic book evidence.... so where do we draw the line on when to stop using it?.. one can't call EVERYTHING that goes against their argument PIS or it looks like you're copping out... and if none of this is credible than why are we here?
I agree with you though Alfy, comic books are these characters' lifes.. they should be subject to what's happened to them in the course of their lives. (there are really extremet example of PIS that should be exempt sure.... this however isn't onew of those)
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
he can know it's coming all he wants it won't help him if he can't react.. I.E. DD... I.E. wolverine.. I.E. CAPTAIN AMERICA...
and if you're only response to this is speed then you need to rethink the premise to your argument all of these types of characters have showed similar feats of fighting speed that spidey does.. hell even the after image bull isn't something that spidey alone can do... again like the namor vs. wolvie thread.. namor's clearly superhuman and wolvie's enhanced.. namor SHOULD be faster than wolverine by tons using that simplistic logic.. but by feats they have the same fighting speed.... same thing here..
spidey thinks something's coming he feels it and reacts but it was only a feint for another move that's still on it's way his spider sense goes off but.. WHACK!
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__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
would you not say that there's even a remote chance that subjectivity is always gonna be a deciding factor on whether or not that judgment's correct though?
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
Errm...Jinzin, read the newest few pages. MetalMan already reconsidered his opinion. Arguing things that have been denied isn't going to get anyone anywhere ...
Though, I did enjoy your rant on "What the hell DO we use, then?"
Gender: Male Location: Kicking pigs out of the screen.
Of course, I agree there, things are almost always like that. I was alot more like that when I came, but I don't really care anymore about one or another in that sense. I think other's just like to argue to be honest. At least the ones who've been here for awhile.
This debate was really cool. Everybody had nice points except Jinzin he arguments always the same way against Spidey and is sometimes really aggresssive. Must be the Cyber Ninja nature
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
even though I've made the same points that soljer just made countless times before?....
I hate you arahan
__________________ "damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
KMC Community Forums
Jul 27th, 2006 08:00 PM
"damn jinzin, you're a real trooper, you provde fact after fact and pages and pages of proof and these wanton miscreants just keep at it"~MERC
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