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Semptember the 11th
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Fishy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
the small group people who run the US have everything to gain. if you cant see it then fine.

its pathetic that you are trying to defend the collapse of building 7. its so pathetic that i aint even gonna argue with you on the matter.


The other side of the building was heavily damaged... Why don't you look at that part and show us that instead of this side?


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 03:45 PM
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Deano
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Fishy
The other side of the building was heavily damaged... Why don't you look at that part and show us that instead of this side?


so friggin what. it wasnt damaged enough to collapse!


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 04:23 PM
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Deano
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http://www.rense.com/general74/try.htm

911 - One Picture Worth
A Thousand Words...
Try These

I got an email the other day from someone whose father worked on Operation Aphrodite. Never heard of it? Neither had I.

In 1944, Operation Aphrodite was designed by the US Army to use remote control warplanes to target Nazi strategic sites in Europe. This was 57 years before remote control planes--drones--targeted the Twin Towers and Pentagon.

Initially, I was skeptical of passenger planes being switched for drones but an unusual 9-11 photograph appeared at Alex Jones' website, www.prisonplanet.com. Undoubtedly, millions have seen this photograph before, taken from a distance, split seconds before Flight 175 strikes the South Tower. Here is the entire, panoramic photograph, showing the south Manhattan skyline, taken from several blocks away.(1)

(please log in to view the image)

On a whim I decided to enlarge the plane in the picture. You can also do this at home using your computer, but I did it for you. I enlarged the plane 300%. What I saw surprised me.

The sunlight from that clear, late summer day shines along the entire fuselage. And there, readily apparent, are the telltale bulges Jon Carlson has been writing about for years. Almost as if the fuselage had become impregnated with a pair of torpedos.

And here is the enlargement, showing just the plane. You can even see the encircling bands around the tubes. Hardly an optical illusion. (2)

(please log in to view the image)

Very likely, this was an image that should have never been seen by the public. The remote control plane--see Operation Aphrodite---curved up from the south. But by chance someone snapped this amazing photograph, a split second before impact, the plane clear as day.

The next photograph I studied shows the eruption of Mount Saint Manhattan. What? You didn't know an undiscovered, active volcano existed exactly beneath the twin towers? Neither did anyone else. But how to explain a pair of obvious eruptions?

Does any structural engineer in the America honestly believe that "pancaking" caused the pyroclastic effect of an erupting skyscraper seen here? (3)

(please log in to view the image)

Recall that this eruption of dust and debris initiated within one to two seconds. Three seconds into the collapse, the towers were spewing debris more than 200 feet outwards. Please explain to me how landslides along the California coastline can genrate a fraction of the dust, while sending ten times the amount of weight falling hundreds of feet?

I would be ashamed to call myself an engineer or architect if I agreed to such a bogus "pancake" theory.

Study this excellent photograph of a pyroclastic flow. That is the hot gases and dust sweeping along the slopes of the volcano. The exact same blast effect survivors testified swept through Manhattan. A tsunami of hot dust particles generated by a terrific blast of pressure. A pyroclastic flow. Notice the blast of pressure sending clouds upwards in both eruptions. (4)

(please log in to view the image)

Not convinced?

Lastly we arrive at the residue of the toxic eruptions. The heat generated melted steel. Hard to melt steel with a ninety minute fuel fire. Weakened steel, perhaps; melted steel, never. Ample testimony to the molten steel found in the sub structure of the WTC exists. Many eye witnesses, too many to dismiss, saw it.

NIST attempts to explain away the molten steel as cascading aluminum from the melted wreckage of the airplane. If aluminum had descended from 800 feet, would it not cool and perhaps solidify as it fell? Aluminum radiates heat quickly and would hardly remain in a molten state weeks later.

Once again, If I were an architect or engineer, I would be ashamed at the slipshod conclusions from NIST, ASCE and FEMA. More like a team of royal alchemists from the Middle Ages, rather than an independent team of 21st century architects and engineers, experimented with fire and then resorted to guesswork to deny the obvious. A controlled demolition brought those buildings down.

Postcript: Seems those engineers are still in denial, still unable to grasp the structural failure of stoutly built skyscrapers. In a recent issue of Engineering News Record ASCE spokesman, W. Gene Corley concluded that "for the life safety of those who may be trapped in the building and of those who must fight these fires, the design objective should be that no collapse occurs with a burnout...the experience after the 9/11 attack...proved a building can collapse as a result of fire."

Not necessarily.

Fellow engineer, Lawrence G. Griffis remarked: "Jon Magnusson said it very well on Peter Jennings' national ABC television news broadcast on 9/11, "The question is not why those buildings fell down but why they stood up (for so long). If you want to stop those types of building collapses, let's not indict the design process, let's stop airplanes from flying into buildings."

But architect and WTC construction manager, Frank DeMartini, engineers John Skilling and Leslie Robertson declared that the WTC twin towers were indeed designed to withstand the impact of 707-757s and the subsequent fires.

According to Demartini, "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." Martini was killed when the towers collapsed.

In the same column, Lawrence G. Griffis, president of the structures division in the Austin, Texas, office of Walter P. Moore and Associates Inc., stated: "The buildings in the World Trade Center collapsed because of a malicious terrorist attack. Everything that followed was a result of that attack...Of more importance to the fire protection community, however, were the collapses of buildings WTC 5 and 7. These two buildings collapsed during burnout from fire even though there was no evidence found that the collapsed areas had been seriously damaged by impact of debris."

Adjacent to these learned comments was a photo captioned: "A FIRST: Five and Seven WTC collapsed before burnout." Neither building had been struck---"attacked"--- by airplanes. None of the engineers dared explain how the collapse actually happened. Nor touched on the incriminating evidence found in the basement, the molten steel, or the enormous pyroclastic flows, or the videotape of a classic controlled demolition, especially in WTC-7.

Pathetic.

USAF veteran and private investigator of public crimes, Douglas Herman writes for Rense regularly.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 04:28 PM
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Robtard
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Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

Using advanced digital imaging software, we can see the expertly hidden cruise missiles that were implanted on the jetliner further insuring that the towers would collapse upon impact. Also, a programmed chimpanzee (Bubbles) was used as a fail safe incase cell phone signals interferred with the remote controls... This conspiracy is really getting thick

(please log in to view the image)


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Last edited by Robtard on Oct 26th, 2006 at 05:06 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 04:55 PM
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Fishy
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Location: The Netherlands

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
so friggin what. it wasnt damaged enough to collapse!


If that's true then why didn't conspiracy sites ever mention it? They never show that side, they never said that the damage was great, they never even mentioned the damage there... Why not? If they are right then showing the truth shouldn't matter now should it? Obviously they don't... Meaning simply that they are the one's hiding things and lying. Their entire argument about building seven is show in an untrue way, that completely destroys their argument and doesn't exactly make their other claims more trustworthy.

Don't trust people who hide and lie the truth.

(and if you are going to say that we shouldn't do the same with the Bush Administration prove it with actual evidence that doesn't hide facts, destroys quotes and gets complicated scientific facts from a theologists.)


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 04:57 PM
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Regret
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Re: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
just thought id give you all an update.

'A monumental new scientific opinion poll has emerged which declares that only 16% of people in America now believe the official government explanation of the September 11th 2001 terror attacks. According to the new New York Times/CBS News poll, only 16% of Americans think the government is telling the truth about 9/11 and the intelligence prior to the attacks:

"Do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

Telling the truth: 16%

Hiding something: 53%

Mostly lying: 28%

Not sure: 3%

Actually, the 16% should be recorded under 'not sure' - not sure what planet they're on.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/article.../141006poll.htm
Statistical numbers do not equal science, and any findings achieved are quite possibly only an error, typically ~5% chance of being in error. Which means the findings of 1 in 20 studies based on statistics is probably in error. If the studies rely on other studies based in statistics the probability of error compounds, not occurring so much in an opinion poll, but the initial error is present.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 05:37 PM
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Mr Parker
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yeah its hilarious how he never asks for any proof from the government. laughing all he gots to do for proof is learn how to do some research like we have.I dont agree with you for trusting anything David Icke says but you have definetely done your homework on 9-11 by listening to Jones and other great source materials.


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Last edited by Mr Parker on Oct 26th, 2006 at 06:08 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:04 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
why? because there is something there they dotn want you to see obviosuly. but shut up be quiet and keep your head down. they have proof of everything. they have it all under control.


This is why people get pissed off at you.

Of course there are issues with them not releasing the tapes.

Yet, you just accuse everyon of being some sort of minion.

I have NEVER seen anyone so entreched in a system of control as yourself. You're a blatant victim of propoganda.

I agree with points from both sides, at least I'm not spoonfed as you are.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:08 PM
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Mr Parker
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by debbiejo
Our government is evil........


Yeah they make the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:23 PM
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Robtard
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Gender: Unspecified
Location: Captain's Chair, CA

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Yeah they make the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.


That comment belongs in the "Dumbest Things You've Heard" thread... I seriously hope you really do not believe that.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:32 PM
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Mr Parker
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Gender: Male
Location: where your not.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Deano
http://www.rense.com/general74/try.htm

911 - One Picture Worth
A Thousand Words...
Try These

I got an email the other day from someone whose father worked on Operation Aphrodite. Never heard of it? Neither had I.

In 1944, Operation Aphrodite was designed by the US Army to use remote control warplanes to target Nazi strategic sites in Europe. This was 57 years before remote control planes--drones--targeted the Twin Towers and Pentagon.

Initially, I was skeptical of passenger planes being switched for drones but an unusual 9-11 photograph appeared at Alex Jones' website, www.prisonplanet.com. Undoubtedly, millions have seen this photograph before, taken from a distance, split seconds before Flight 175 strikes the South Tower. Here is the entire, panoramic photograph, showing the south Manhattan skyline, taken from several blocks away.(1)

(please log in to view the image)

On a whim I decided to enlarge the plane in the picture. You can also do this at home using your computer, but I did it for you. I enlarged the plane 300%. What I saw surprised me.

The sunlight from that clear, late summer day shines along the entire fuselage. And there, readily apparent, are the telltale bulges Jon Carlson has been writing about for years. Almost as if the fuselage had become impregnated with a pair of torpedos.

And here is the enlargement, showing just the plane. You can even see the encircling bands around the tubes. Hardly an optical illusion. (2)

(please log in to view the image)

Very likely, this was an image that should have never been seen by the public. The remote control plane--see Operation Aphrodite---curved up from the south. But by chance someone snapped this amazing photograph, a split second before impact, the plane clear as day.

The next photograph I studied shows the eruption of Mount Saint Manhattan. What? You didn't know an undiscovered, active volcano existed exactly beneath the twin towers? Neither did anyone else. But how to explain a pair of obvious eruptions?

Does any structural engineer in the America honestly believe that "pancaking" caused the pyroclastic effect of an erupting skyscraper seen here? (3)

(please log in to view the image)

Recall that this eruption of dust and debris initiated within one to two seconds. Three seconds into the collapse, the towers were spewing debris more than 200 feet outwards. Please explain to me how landslides along the California coastline can genrate a fraction of the dust, while sending ten times the amount of weight falling hundreds of feet?

I would be ashamed to call myself an engineer or architect if I agreed to such a bogus "pancake" theory.

Study this excellent photograph of a pyroclastic flow. That is the hot gases and dust sweeping along the slopes of the volcano. The exact same blast effect survivors testified swept through Manhattan. A tsunami of hot dust particles generated by a terrific blast of pressure. A pyroclastic flow. Notice the blast of pressure sending clouds upwards in both eruptions. (4)

(please log in to view the image)

Not convinced?

Lastly we arrive at the residue of the toxic eruptions. The heat generated melted steel. Hard to melt steel with a ninety minute fuel fire. Weakened steel, perhaps; melted steel, never. Ample testimony to the molten steel found in the sub structure of the WTC exists. Many eye witnesses, too many to dismiss, saw it.

NIST attempts to explain away the molten steel as cascading aluminum from the melted wreckage of the airplane. If aluminum had descended from 800 feet, would it not cool and perhaps solidify as it fell? Aluminum radiates heat quickly and would hardly remain in a molten state weeks later.

Once again, If I were an architect or engineer, I would be ashamed at the slipshod conclusions from NIST, ASCE and FEMA. More like a team of royal alchemists from the Middle Ages, rather than an independent team of 21st century architects and engineers, experimented with fire and then resorted to guesswork to deny the obvious. A controlled demolition brought those buildings down.

Postcript: Seems those engineers are still in denial, still unable to grasp the structural failure of stoutly built skyscrapers. In a recent issue of Engineering News Record ASCE spokesman, W. Gene Corley concluded that "for the life safety of those who may be trapped in the building and of those who must fight these fires, the design objective should be that no collapse occurs with a burnout...the experience after the 9/11 attack...proved a building can collapse as a result of fire."

Not necessarily.

Fellow engineer, Lawrence G. Griffis remarked: "Jon Magnusson said it very well on Peter Jennings' national ABC television news broadcast on 9/11, "The question is not why those buildings fell down but why they stood up (for so long). If you want to stop those types of building collapses, let's not indict the design process, let's stop airplanes from flying into buildings."

But architect and WTC construction manager, Frank DeMartini, engineers John Skilling and Leslie Robertson declared that the WTC twin towers were indeed designed to withstand the impact of 707-757s and the subsequent fires.

According to Demartini, "The building was designed to have a fully loaded 707 crash into it. That was the largest plane at the time. I believe that the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door -- this intense grid -- and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing that screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting." Martini was killed when the towers collapsed.

In the same column, Lawrence G. Griffis, president of the structures division in the Austin, Texas, office of Walter P. Moore and Associates Inc., stated: "The buildings in the World Trade Center collapsed because of a malicious terrorist attack. Everything that followed was a result of that attack...Of more importance to the fire protection community, however, were the collapses of buildings WTC 5 and 7. These two buildings collapsed during burnout from fire even though there was no evidence found that the collapsed areas had been seriously damaged by impact of debris."

Adjacent to these learned comments was a photo captioned: "A FIRST: Five and Seven WTC collapsed before burnout." Neither building had been struck---"attacked"--- by airplanes. None of the engineers dared explain how the collapse actually happened. Nor touched on the incriminating evidence found in the basement, the molten steel, or the enormous pyroclastic flows, or the videotape of a classic controlled demolition, especially in WTC-7.

Pathetic.

USAF veteran and private investigator of public crimes, Douglas Herman writes for Rense regularly.



Here we have the designers and engineers on record saying the towers were designed to withstand the hit of huge jet airliners and people here will still never deal with the truth that explosives were set off in the buildings. yep pathetic.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:42 PM
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Alliance
This is why people get pissed off at you.

Of course there are issues with them not releasing the tapes.

Yet, you just accuse everyon of being some sort of minion.

I have NEVER seen anyone so entreched in a system of control as yourself. You're a blatant victim of propoganda.

I agree with points from both sides, at least I'm not spoonfed as you are.
I agree with this post.

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Robtard
That comment belongs in the "Dumbest Things You've Heard" thread... I seriously hope you really do not believe that.
And this one.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:43 PM
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Mr Parker
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Location: where your not.

Bush,Chaney, Rumsfield and many others are the equal of Hitler.Many Individuals in high positions of power within the government such as them make it so.The CIA for sure makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.If you would go to the library and check out some books on the CIA you would understand that.Harry Truman admitted creating the CIA was the worst mistake he ever made in office.That he created a monster.I could go into all kinds of details about the atrocities that the CIA has committed before but that doesn't belong here on this thread.


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Last edited by Mr Parker on Oct 26th, 2006 at 06:55 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 06:53 PM
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Fishy
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Bush,Chaney, Rumsfield and many others are the equal of Hitler.Many Individuals in high positions of power within the government such as them make it so.The CIA for sure makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.If you would go to the library and check out some books on the CIA you would understand that.Harry Truman admitted creating the CIA was the worst mistake he ever made in office.That he created a monster.I could go into all kinds of details about the atrocities that the CIA has committed before but that doesn't belong here on this thread.


I really don't care how bad you think the CIA is, the SS was worse... And those people may have done awful things and previous US presidents may have supported awful people and governments but really Hitler??? Really overreacting there.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:06 PM
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Mr Parker
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Since your about the only one that has come on here that has made any rational and reasonable points who disagrees with me and Deano,I can actually respect YOU and YOUR views as a poster so pm me if you like and we can discuss it.Like i said,this isnt the thread to discuss that so pm me and we can do that if you so desire that is. wink


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:29 PM
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KidRock
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quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Bush,Chaney, Rumsfield and many others are the equal of Hitler.Many Individuals in high positions of power within the government such as them make it so.The CIA for sure makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.If you would go to the library and check out some books on the CIA you would understand that.Harry Truman admitted creating the CIA was the worst mistake he ever made in office.That he created a monster.I could go into all kinds of details about the atrocities that the CIA has committed before but that doesn't belong here on this thread.

u cant be serious.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:32 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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Location: Kamino Boot Camp

quote: (post)
Originally posted by Mr Parker
Bush,Chaney, Rumsfield and many others are the equal of Hitler.Many Individuals in high positions of power within the government such as them make it so.The CIA for sure makes the third reich look like a bunch of choir boys.If you would go to the library and check out some books on the CIA you would understand that.Harry Truman admitted creating the CIA was the worst mistake he ever made in office.That he created a monster.I could go into all kinds of details about the atrocities that the CIA has committed before but that doesn't belong here on this thread.


As much as I hate the current administration, I have not seen them responsible for the massacre of 12 million people.

Unfortunately, the CIA is our link to foreign intelligence, which is something we desperately need.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:38 PM
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Mr Parker
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Gender: Male
Location: where your not.

Well they havent murdered and tortured as many innocent people-something that they DO do often and get away with,so they're a little bit behind in their evil and wickedness from the thrid reich.Until agencys like them and the FBI are abolished,the united states will never be the country that are forefathers fought for where free speech ect is allowed.were losing more and more freedoms here all the time.


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Last edited by Mr Parker on Oct 26th, 2006 at 07:44 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:41 PM
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Ordo
Enforcer of the Republic

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Location: Kamino Boot Camp

Yeah, I cant say they've tortured more than 1000 innocent people.

However, I STRONGLY believe that there are correct ways to go about civil disobedience. Comparing Bush to Hitler is not productive, nor it it correct, and personally, it comes of as simply an inflamitory technique.


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Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:44 PM
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Deano
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quote:
The first Director of the CIA was Allan Dulles, a Nazi himself, as was his brother, John Foster Dulles, who was appointed Secretary of State. The Dulles’ are another British aristocratic bloodline. Both Dulles brothers were involved in Project Paperclip, as was Henry Kissinger, a ‘German Jew’, who answers not to Judaism, but to Satanism . The Dulles’ were from a southern slave owning family and were cousins of the Rockefellers. The Dulles law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, handled the US affairs of I. G. Farben and Hitler’s major backer, Fritz Thyssen, introduced Allen Dulles to him. John Foster Dulles wrote “Heil Hitler” on his letters to German clients and he was sent to Germany to negotiate new loans for the Nazis on behalf of the Rothschild-Rockefeller Round Table group. The loans were made to help the Germans pay back their war reparations which the same John Foster Dulles had helped to impose as a member of the American delegation at the Versailles Peace Conference in 1919.

After the war, the Nazi leadership simply exchanged their jackboots and tin helmets for smart suits and scientist’s overalls and the Agenda continued. Given this fact, does anyone still believe that the controlling Nazi-Satanic core of the US Government would not deliberately set out to burn children to death at Waco or blow them up at Oklahoma in pursuit of their Agenda for global domination? This is the mentality that controls our world and five billion people are allowing it to happen. Only if they continue to do so,

- the biggest secret



the CIA was created by Nazis, for Nazis.


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Last edited by Deano on Oct 26th, 2006 at 07:50 PM

Old Post Oct 26th, 2006 07:45 PM
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