Who was the better player: 34-year-old Michael Jordan or 34-year-old Kobe Bryant?
Man, it's amazing to think about MJ's overall game back in '98. With his basketball IQ alone, he could dismantle any defense or offense thrown at him. There was virtually no weaknesses in his game. '98 Jordan could slash to the basket, or just rain jump shots all day.
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"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
Sure, but is 20 ppg elite compared to other all stars, or elite in general? That's my question.
That said, Curry's pedestal from GOAT individual season has dropped to somewhat GOAT individual season. I'm liking what I see from Draymond Green, definitely the Pippen to Curry's Jordan. The Spurs are just as good as the Warriors. And the west has been garbage.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Of course not against most offensive all-stars. But definitely better than most defensive all-stars.
When you're making 20pts a game in the NBA, you deserve to be called an all-star, no matter how underrated or overrated the media and the public think of you.
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"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
I knew the Steph Curry hype will go overboard sometime. And now, this list just proved it. It's crazy to even suggest he's on the same level, much more so that he surpasses, the other legends at the bottom of the list. He hasn't even played for 10 years. We don't even know if he'll be able to play the same way if he suddenly gets a major injury. And the Warriors' roster is loaded with current and former all-stars. Heck, the current Warriors team is better than Pippen's Trailblazers team.
Kobe Bryant at #2 greatest SG? Laughable. He was a better jump shooter than Jordan at the 3-point line and at the clutch, I'll give you that. But in every other aspect of the game, he was behind Dwayne Wade. D-Wade deserved that spot. You have to take into account that D-Wade had to sacrifice his career numbers for LBJ and Bosh.
I agree with King James as #1 greatest SF, though. It's about time people recognize King James as the best player in his position, and probably in this era. I've never doubted it; I've always known he would become the best SF in the league even before the hype surrounded him after winning his rings. Even if he didn't win any rings at all, he'd still be the best SF based on stats and overall impact in the game.
I don't need to say anything about the greatest PF . As one of the editors said, his statistical averages and accomplishes eclipses even that of centers. Fundamentals will always be the key factor in winning games.
Odd they don't have a list for Centers. If they/you ask my opinion, #1 center should be Hakeem Olajuwon. I don't care if Shaq was the most dominant, or Wilt was the highest scorer, or Bill had the most rings. The Dream was the most complete center the league has ever seen. He'd be virtually unguardable in the post if he was playing in this era, no exaggeration.
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"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
Last edited by AsbestosFlaygon on Jan 18th, 2016 at 05:50 AM
1. If they were making a list of players in their primes, then I'd agree Curry should be up there, (heck, what he's doing right now is the greatest season by any point guard ever,) but since they're factoring in their whole careers, I agree, he should be below Isiah and CP3 and what not. And tbh, CP3 should be in the top 5. His statistical dominance eclipses the other top point guards...and it's not even close.
You think Kobe was a better clutch shooter than Jordan? Not really.
I agree, Lebron is the greatest SF ever, and imo by both stats AND accomplishments. What do you think of Durant at 4?
Yeeeep. Though I think Bob Pettit should be higher. He was imo better in his time than some of the players above him were in theirs.
Their list for centers comes out next week. And I'm not so sure about Hakeem at #1. For all his versatility and skill, his impact on a game imo wasn't as great as Shaq's, Wilt's, Kareem's, etc. Kareem had imo (arguably objectively) the greatest 3 year stretch in NBA history. Take a look at Kareem from the 1970-1971 season to the 1972-1973 season:
32.3 points per game
16.2 rebounds per game
4.3 assists per game
57% field goal percentage
29.1 PER
0.329 ws/48 (by far the highest win shares/48 of any 3 year stretch, during this stretch he posted two seasons that qualify as the two highest ws/48 seasons in NBA history)
Those statistics are on a completely higher level than Hakeem entirely. Then there's Wilt, who I doubt I need to get into in terms of stats. Heck, I firmly believe that David Robinson vs Hakeem can be argued. Look where he places here:
Wilt and Bill had no competition in their era. All the points and rebounds they stacked would not be as inflated as it is if they played in the 80's-00's, where more athletic big men abound the league. Hakeem was primarily a defender first, shooter second. And what is the primary role of a center? That's right. He's the defensive anchor of the team. He belongs in the top 10 blocks, points, AND steals. How many centers have the same defensive statistics as he does? None.
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"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
I wouldn't say Wilt and Russell had no competition. They had each other, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Bob Pettit, Dave Cowens, Walt Bellamy, and Kareem Abdul Jabbar specifically for Wilt, (and even an old, arthritis-stricken Wilt was capable of giving a peak kareem fits.) I'd put that lineup of centers against any era, easily. Of course the stats wouldn't be as inflated, but even interrelating them, Wilt's advanced stats, (which account for pace and what not) vastly outstrip Hakeem's. And I disagree that Hakeem had the best defensive statistics:
For me, the top 5 centers are Kareem, Wilt, Shaq, Hakeem, and David Robinson. It's really hard for me to rate Russell tbh, which is why he fluctuates between out of top 5 and top 3 for me.
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
Bill isn't in my top 5 either. The 'rings' argument falls flat compared to the other great centers.
I'd like to point out that stats don't say everything. You have to take into account the player's skill set, basketball IQ, and overall impact in the game.
Anyway, Lakers suck so much. Kobe keeps shooting bricks and forgot how to pass, and Hibbert has butterfingers.
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"Farewell, Damos... Ash, Pikachu... And you. All of my beloved." -- Arceus
I agree that stats don't say everything in terms of skill set and IQ, but they certainly relay impact and effectiveness quite excellently. I mean, we all know that Shaq wasn't exactly the most skilled or polished of centers, but his effectiveness and dominance was arguably second to none. Not only that, but I find through my research that while sure, Kareem and Wilt didn't have quite the ball faking, spinning arsenal that Hakeem had, both were less turnover prone, had their own bevy of post moves (Wilt with his unstoppable fadeaways, finger rolls, up and unders, dipper dunks, etc. And Kareem with his skyhook, turnaround jumpers, etc.) And generally speaking, their sheer dominance and effectiveness given their physical stature and capabilities outstrip Hakeem's own.
I first started watching the Lakers in '08, when they lost to the Celtics in the Finals. Those were the days when Kobe himself was quite the unstoppable force, (to an extent.)
__________________ ”You presume limits to my power. There are none.”
KMC Community Forums
Dec 30th, 2015 12:48 AM
. As one of the editors said, his statistical averages and accomplishes eclipses even that of centers. Fundamentals will always be the key factor in winning games.
