Gender: Female Location: on the dingy with dear ol' Jacky
yeah they totally crashed that rule but you must admit there are less book-like features in the POTC series than other disney movies like the whole living it on a cliff hanger in 2 or ending it with jack singing instead of the kiss and in normal disney movies people don't have affairs do they? even small ones that only go as far as a kiss! but they could make it less book like by making the cool, sloppy and sexy guy get the girl for a change!!!!
__________________ My hats off to joanjoan
Freedom...
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
no i mean they have NEVER used a book end in any of their movies!! thats what I mean lol..none of the movies so far have started and ended exactly the same..movie 2 looks like it but when you look at where each character emotionally is by the end of it ..its no where NEAR where it started ..and thats why it gives me hope when Ted said "all the closure you need with the love triangle is in movie 2" so yeah its Liz who wants Jack..Jack wants Liz..and Will wants his dad and he wnats to stab/hurt Liz back ..lol"
I think thats BS about the character arc thing..they were under a lot of pressure to make him different from the critics..he was at risk of becoming stale..I actually love what he's turning in to..all cuz of Lizzie..wanna see more
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 13th, 2006 at 07:25 PM
Gender: Female Location: on the dingy with dear ol' Jacky
agreed the characters HAVE to change for the story to progress and wether people realize it or not love is changing both jack and liz. more freedom in liz and more innocence in jack...just like their kiss
__________________ My hats off to joanjoan
Freedom...
maybe they (the authors) want us just to believe that's a will/liz thing...and then surprise us?! ...i mean the facts/the symbols are against them....they wouldn't have done them just for fun...I'll keep my hope!
Well......they have not comfirmed anything, one way or the other....nothing is for sure yet...they didn't say it would be a liz/jack....or....god forbid...a liz/will ending......nobody really knows anything yet...not even them...
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
ted did say that the way movie 2 ended with all the emotinal moments was all the closure you needed with the love tringle..and they wouldn't have to really make a 3rd..when you look at how it ended physically..it points to Will/Liz..but Ted never said PHYSICALLY with the characters..he said how they mentally developed and ended..which actually points to Jack/Liz..Will/Darker image/Dad (or at least I hope)
Jack ended physically with his pearl/hat..but mentally was with Liz(accepted her in his life according to T&T
Liz ended physically with Will..but mentally with Jack (was thinking about him at the end T&Tjust wanted him in her life
Will ended physically with Liz..but he was mentally elsewhere..that was MORE than obvious..scary darkness about him..and he ended mentally with his dadda! (which they have said will happen)
So yeah the next chapter needs to follow the no book ends rule so they cant make it look obviously Jack/Liz from the beginning cuz it WONT end that way if we see that happen..so dont get too worried about Jack shoving Liz on Sao Feng's ship..and Liz slapping him or what ever,,and Will starting out wanting Liz..its FAKE..they hate starting and ending exactly the same way with their stories..so when you look at a trilogy..it makes more sense..that its not a Will/Liz-blip in the radar-Will/Liz
so each character is gonna start movie 3 where they physically left off in movie 2..but the mental ending of movie 2 is what counts when it comes to an end imovie 3..IMO.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 13th, 2006 at 08:31 PM
Gender: Female Location: Drinking rum with Jack in a dingy
tHE THING OF IT IS...AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAY ..AND EVERYTHING I BELIEVE SHOULD HAPPEN WITH THIS TRILOGY...BUT SADDLY IT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WHAT GORE, TED AND TERRY HAVE IN MIND...SO....
REALLY, I'M JUST TRYING TO PREPARE MYSELF SO i'M NOT TOO CRUSHED COME NEXT MEMORIAL DAY....2007
I'LL JUST CRY OVER MY GLASS OF RED WINE AND IMAGINE I'M WITH JACK/JOHNNY - CUZ WE ALL KNOW JOHNNY LOVES RED WINE...LOL
__________________ All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
yeh but they did say movie 2 emotionally ends where the love triangle will end and did you get any vibe that Will/Liz were any closer together?? I ended that movie thinking WOW jack liz/ are meant to be! I didnt see it as her leaving Jack for will because she was mentally tied to him..she had to be pushed to go basically..and at the end..she was only thinking about having this man back in her life..
they ended further apart than ever before..and even I could see that when I first watched movie 1..its a pretty obvious thing
and I'm guessing the Jack/Liz ending isnt a confirmed spoiler yet becuase the ending hasnt been shot
so there is no confirmed ending yet at all..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 13th, 2006 at 09:03 PM
^^ Exactly!! that's what they are going to have a REALLY hard time trying to bring them back together. that's one of the many reasons why will/liz does NOT work.
LovelyOne, that's ABSOLUTELY true. They can't slap us now with a flimsy and unconvincing will/liz ending!
Come on... in the first movie, the best moments were the jack/liz ones; and although they did not explode their chemistry to high levels they DID have a brighter spark together than will/liz had. And now, in the second movie, it's simply breathtaking -- Jack and Liz are just meant to be together - its like when you close a plastic container and it goes like *pluck!* and stays perfectly sealed -- they FIT TOGETHER!!!
Definitely, NONE of us is going to believe in an insustancial will/liz ending. And it is not because we are jack/liz followers, it is because these two movies clearly show that the heart of the trilogy resides in a jack/liz ending. If not, it would simply not make any sense... the simbolisms, all the dialog between both... are they even SLIGHTLY COMPARABLE to the will/liz scenes -- their glances, smiles, ideologies, and everything? Certainly not! Ted and Terry cannot be so shut to conclude "the second movie is only a passage for the will/liz relationship to strengthen", because if they did, they'd KILL the trilogy ignoring everything THEY have invented. Because... yes, they are the creators, the masterminds -- are they dumb to place all a blooming jack/liz interaction to then state that "oops, that didn't even happen, you didn't saw it - these characters are not changing so we'll stick with the will/liz relationship"??? NO! They created this characters; they live inside them, they know them better than anyone else -- and I am certain they will not kill them by nailing them to the ground and repressing their changes and individual evolution. The characters have to live and change -- if not, only ONE MOVIE WOULD DO THE JOB. WE WOULDN'T NEED A TRILOGY to see three characters begin and end the same; as static-blind statues. So they can't simply throw a will/liz ending.
As you said, LovelyOne, will/liz are even more apart this time -- Ted and Terry cannot ignore this because they invented it. And inventing it involves sustancial reasons, and these are clear: Jack and Liz are meant to be -- Jack adding the freedom ingredient and Liz adding the innocence seasoning to cook a breathtaking relationship.
Nor us nor them can be fooled with a will/liz ending: the first movie left a strange flavor in our mouths because will/liz, well, feel like so childish, like so "I am your first and true love because you were the first one to see me" and those kind of things. But the second movie presents a clear evolution of each character -- Will focusing on his father above Elizabeth, and jack/liz growing in a sparkling interaction full of the chemistry will/liz always lacked.
I believe Jack and Liz will end up together. The trilogy CAN'T end in another way -- if it did, I would certainly worry if I was Ted and Terry because of inventing flat-static-stone characters that don't evolve nor learn anyting nor live; but go through an adventure were they start and end being the same. And no heart can start and end the same after an adventure that unleashes its true - and sincere - being.
((I've been reading this forum everyday {almost literally} since POTC2 came out, and never dared to post -- I am not a good poster, but couldn't resist to "un-drown" myself by expressing what I felt after so much hours of reading your theories and commentaries... ))
Oh my goodness I just had to say that I love that bit you just wrote---- more freedom in liz and more innocence in Jack.... thats beautiful. thats really beautiful. i never thought about it that way... but its true there is an innocence to Jack in that moment, and a vulnerability.
i also love red wine. apparently its keira's trick for clearing up break-outs on her face. lol.
ill betcha ANY MONEY they shoot a few endings...that way the actors wont know how it ends either.
to me, im not giving up faith.
I agree with whoever said that everything that is being said is about Will/Liz ...and NOTHING whatsoever has been said bout the jack/liz side of things yet...or is it me that is missing something??
Yes, the actors have said how much they enjoyed kissing eachother...they've spoke about how much fun it was filming and orlando has spoken about the will/liz relationship....but has anyone read ANYTHING about the jack/liz relationship from the actors OR the writers???
ive not heard a blip...which makes me wonder oh-so-much about exactly why we've not heard anything...
why only bits of 3 were on the net and none of it was the confrontation of jack/liz....why only LIZ AND JACK have been seen in asian clothes and none of the other cast has... and more importantly, why the writers continue to talk about will/liz and how their relationship is blah blah blah...you can call me a fool, but to me it just seems like they're trying to hide something....and i think that something would be the biggest shock of all when the film comes out!!!
PS: I dont mean little cryptic tid-bits like 'waffles' and stuff...i mean proper questions that have addressed the writers as to WHY she kissed him......WHY it happened
__________________
Last edited by T.Maria on Sep 13th, 2006 at 11:36 PM
LETS BLOCK ALL THE NEGATIVE THINGS PLEASSEE!!!
T&T are smart ass writers. im pretty sure they know what they're doing and also the actors participate on the writing of the script too. Keira was the one who suggested the part where she chains jack.(ok nvm that doesnt help lmao)
Anyways this isnt exactlyy a childrens book for ucks sakes this is disney pg-13 in a more mature way as in more teenage angst.
Liz and wills love was as that as a childrens book "awwe i wuv u hunny bunny" and all that bolony. With liz and jack its more serious and they have a better understanding with eachother and its like reading eachothers thoughts
they actually know what that person is feeling and its a complete bond that they both have with eachother. They both understand eachother they both know what they want and they both have the same feelings and thoughts. Jack is willing to give in bc hes a pirate hello but liz is just completely freeked out bc she knows that she has to be with will bc its only right-but for society. To make her look like a descent woman married to a descent man.
Jack really doesnt seem to care.. think liz is having more troubles with herself than society and even with will.
okay guys... please dont freak out at me, cause i am going to post a very depressing dumb post, but im going to be honest with where i am at.
i think the end will be Liz/Will. (i have NO information saying for sure or anything, dont freak out)... its just a gut feeling.
I think the theories we have all come up with are fabulous and very true... but I think somehow in 3, they will turn it back around.
it will never work between Will and Liz unless they both change... big time. and i think they will. they have to. i dont like Will at all, i dont think anyone but teenage girls do. they HAVE to do something big with him... and turning him around, making him more piraty, and somehow making him worthy of the girl... that would be the only change that would make his character worth having written to begin with.
Somehow, this doesn't totally depress me. Because I still think there is an incredibly beautiful bond between Liz and Jack. And I still think they will always know each other better than anyone else... I think somehow, Disney will give us a very meaningful resolution for them. they'll have to.
i dont know. of course I'm still hoping I'll be all surprised by the ending i want... but i am going to like the film either way. seriously.
i'm just at a point where i will be happy either way.
cause if they do a liz/will ending, they WILL MAKE IT WORK... for ALL OF US... somehow they will make Will cool. i dont know how, but hey... lol... i have faith.
Jack is just outrageously incredible... no matter what, he will make the movie worth seeing.
T&T are smart, your completely right. they've done all this before and they will do it again and they are not stupid enough to take the audience through a journey and then turn around at the end and go;
"Oh, sorry about that...a momentary relapse but we're now going straight back to the beginning after all the character soul-searching we did"
Also...in 3 isnt Gov swann supposed to die??
he would be elizabeths only tie to a world that did not involve piracy....shes laid bare now, which means that theres no going back for her...shes free from her former life...which may mean that will is part of that former life
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
am I a bad person for saying this. I really didn't CARE that Will was hurt by that kiss when I first saw movie 1..before I became a shipper..I just totally absorbed the kiss and Will/Liz just completely got knocked out of my mind. I didn't even care..I said to my mum "don't you think Jack/Liz have agreat chemistry on screen?" and she said "yes but poor Will" I honestly thought to myself...."OH YEAH..Will.!!.." not even joking..I didn't feel an OUNCE of sympathy towards him seeing that kiss I actually forgot that he was her lover...I was just like.."oh Will's head and Gibbs legs get out of the WAY!"
when she first locked him up I thought.."damn that kiss was a bit passionate even for a distraction!"
and then I thought..oh it wasn't real...
then she almost "kissed him again!" and as a person who had only seen that movie once..from that very moment I thought they were going to head that way for sure with the love triangle..if not..Why add that little moment in at the end of this movie..if its not going to continue into the 3rd??? "..
anyway..I'll shut up...just memories from what it was like before I was a shipper..and how I viewed the film..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Sep 14th, 2006 at 12:14 AM
i had a very similar reaction. i didnt think about will at all.
i was shocked and completely swept off my feet by that kiss. i had 3 panic attacks and almost ended up in hospital that night. now tell me im not a HUGE DORK> LOOL..... i guess movies tend to affect me a lot. my overactive imagination. LOL.
that moment is the climax of the entire series to that point. they wont be able to top it.
all this to say, the post i posted above is still true for me, but damn... that kiss!!!! lol
KMC Community Forums
Sep 13th, 2006 07:15 PM
..and thats why it gives me hope when Ted said "all the closure you need with the love triangle is in movie 2" so yeah its Liz who wants Jack..Jack wants Liz..and Will wants his dad and he wnats to stab/hurt Liz back ..lol"
with the characters..he said how they mentally developed and ended..which actually points to Jack/Liz..Will/Darker image/Dad (or at least I hope)
....you make me happy again, thank you!!! 
All my thanks to savvysparrowluv!
))
