Gender: Female Location: Where Ever The Wind Takes Me, I Go
I know, I feel like S**T cause I don't have the link. I'll got hunting right now. I'll try to find it, and then we could really party.
Hopefully the person didn't just make it up, but it also seems like something that would happen in AWE. When there's UST then there's a big chance for...you know...
__________________ He smiles and whispers her true nature; pirate.
She doesn't drink, tears sting in her eyes. His face when she left, walked out of his life. This is not my pic, it belongs to Kalin from KTTC. All hail Kalin and her wonderful picture making ways.
Gah, all I could find. It doesn't have the quote in there, but I guess it's pretty interesting. Mostly near the end.
__________________ He smiles and whispers her true nature; pirate.
She doesn't drink, tears sting in her eyes. His face when she left, walked out of his life. This is not my pic, it belongs to Kalin from KTTC. All hail Kalin and her wonderful picture making ways.
Gender: Female Location: Where Ever The Wind Takes Me, I Go
Yeah I know. I might've just been delusional but did you pick up on some hints? Like when they said '[...] why Elizabeth did what she did [...]"
__________________ He smiles and whispers her true nature; pirate.
She doesn't drink, tears sting in her eyes. His face when she left, walked out of his life. This is not my pic, it belongs to Kalin from KTTC. All hail Kalin and her wonderful picture making ways.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
exactly..Jack basically asked her to be with him..and she freaked because before hand when her deeper feelings for Jack get brought to the surface the only thing she shows is fear,denial,anger etc IMO that was in no way a cold hearted denial..she clearly wants the man. Jack made a clear statment "BE WITH ME LIZZIE I WANT YOU IN MY LIFE"
she's right at step 3 with the famous 12 steps when she did that to Jack:
2) THE CALL TO ADVENTURE.
The hero is presented with a problem, challenge, or adventure.
Maybe the land is dying, as in the Arthur stories about the search
for the Holy Grail. In STAR WARS again, it's Princess Leia's
holographic message to Obi Wan Kenobi, who asks Luke to join in the
quest. In detective stories, it's the hero accepting a new case.
In romantic comedies it could be the first sight of that special --
but annoying someone the hero or heroine will be pursuing/sparring
with the remainder of the story.
3) THE HERO IS RELUCTANT AT FIRST.
Often at this point, the hero balks at the threshold of adventure.
After all, he or she is facing the greatest of all fears -- fear of
the unknown. At this point Luke refuses Obi Wan's call to adventure,
and returns to his aunt and uncle's farmhouse, only to find they
have been barbqued by the Emperor's stormtroopers. Suddenly Luke is
no longer reluctant, and is eager to undertake the adventure. He is
motivated.
4) THE HERO IS ENCOURAGED BY THE WISE OLD MAN OR WOMAN.
By this time many stories will have introduced a Merlin-like
character who is the hero's mentor. In JAWS it's the crusty Robert
Shaw character who knows all about sharks; in the mythology of the
Mary Tyler Moore Show, it's Lou Grant. The mentor gives advice and
sometimes magical weapons. This is Obi Wan Kenobi giving Luke
Skywalker his father's light sabre.
The mentor can only go so far with the hero. Eventually the hero
must face the unknown by himself. Sometimes the wise old man is
required to give the hero a swift kick in the pants to get the
adventure going.
5) THE HERO PASSES THE FIRST THRESHOLD.
He fully enters the special world of his story for the first time.
This is the moment at which the story takes off and the adventure
gets going. The balloon goes up, the romance begins, the plane or
spaceship blasts off, the wagon train gets rolling. Dorothy sets
out on the Yellow Brick Road. The hero is now committed to his
journey... and there's no turning back.
***** ends it here
DMC has closure to the love triangle?? HECK YEAH!
T&T know what they are doing..she's not deciding to find Will is she when she crosses that threshold? Again look at the quote in my siggie it all makes sense
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 6th, 2006 at 11:06 PM
I think what's most interesting and revealing is what they're saying about Jack. Most of the attacks I've heard against J/E as a couple have been about Jack's choices in the purported AWE script.
The writers say two things which I find interesting. First, they say that the more Jack talks, the less you should trust him. Only in his silence is he trustworthy.
Second they say something about Jack's character. They talk about how he cannot necessarily be pigeon holed as a "good man". That no one can actually be type casted so easily.
They compare his character to his words: "There is only what a man can do, and what a man can't do."
They translate that to mean: "Judge a man by his actions, not his words"
Rather than being a brash, braggart about the kiss that he shared with Elizabeth, he tells her that he will maintain his silence.
Compared to Will, his love is shown through his actions, not through his words. I think that is where some people are missing the point of the J/E relationship. He declares his love for her through his actions, and unfortunately through his silence.
thats a really, really good point. i'm glad you brought that up, savvysparrow. thats really good.
i totally agree. Jack has a different way of expressing things.
Its interesting to me why most attacks/arguments against J/E are centered around Jack and his personality and decisions and stuff... when honestly, i think its very clear (even from an objective standpoint) that Jack has completely fallen for Elizabeth. We see that growing in movie 2, and every single spoiler we've gotten for movie 3 is somehow consistent with the fact that Jack really desires her.
Its ELIZABETH that is more questionable. If i were shpping will/liz, and wanted to argue against J/L, i would argue on the basis that Elizabeth has been in denial for a long time by the middle of movie 3 (or up to the point we know about anyways). Its HER choices that are going to have the most impact on who she ends up with... because both guys, in their own ways, have presented her with an offer, and she is the one who has to break someone's heart.
Plus, she's been through this, in a way... She saw what a wonderful man norrington was, how he came to find her, and treated her with the utmost honor, etc..... and then she broke his heart, and it broke him as a man. She saw the wreck he has become, and probably, in a lot of ways, she blames herself for that.
She doesnt want to do that to Will, ya know? She doesnt want to break him.
Thats one of the major problems in their relationship-- they see each other as salvation.
Yeah Jack is just plain awesome. I wouldnt WANT him to be easily tagged as a good man. I'm glad t and t were so upfront about saying, NO, he's not a good man.... but he CAN have good intentions, he does act honorably a lot... but he takes each situation as it comes.
its that kind of adaptability and open-mindedness thats allowed him to survive this long.
will doesnt have this, which is his fatal flaw.
which is right? i dont know. but they've created this world which is morally ambiguous, where there isnt a clear wrong and right.... so with the rules they've laid down in THAT world, Jack is generally going to come out on top. hopefully, that means with the girl as well.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
great amazing point!!
he was silent at the end..just smiling. Meaning that was a very honest emotion he was showing..he loves that about her..he loves what she's doing to him.
Also the very act of coming back was enough to scare the crap out of Elizaeth..that was him saying "be with me"
notice how Liz became the one trying to talk her way out of the situation with lots of words? She's not being honest at all when it comes to why she is doing what she's doing...she wants Jack badly..and chainging him up is geting rid of him because right now she fears those feelings for him.
IMO that may have been why Jack giggled a bit when she was trying to explain herslef..she was turning into him.
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 7th, 2006 at 01:10 PM
Wow! That's actually a good point. Her profusion of words are just as important as his silence. Interesting! I never thought of it that way. After all, they are peas in a pod. They did reverse roles in this movie to an almost extreme degree. And, subsequently, after Jack is gone, her melancholy silence is also telling when viewed with this interpretation.
katielovespirate:I agree with you on that point. I think that's part of Elizabeth's hesitation in fully surrendering to Jack's advances. She's seen what has happened to Norrington, and how her decisions have essentially ruined his life (when she sees Norrington and says, what has the world done to you, she's actually saying, what have I done to you) and is possibly keeping that in mind when it comes to Will. After all, she's probably feeling guilty about being attracted to Jack when she's supposed to be in love with Will.
However, I think part of her hesitation also has to do with Jack's character. He's not entirely trustworthy; they've admitted that they're similar in nature. She's probably not certain that he truly cares for her.
I agree and disagree with your comment about Elizabeth's decisions affecting the outcome of who ends up with whom. It's the choices of all three characters that will ultimately impact that decision. If Jack chooses to remain silent and never express himself except through actions, that will impact her decision. Will, in the script, seems more ready to fight for her, while Jack seems to assume that he's lost. Will's choices will affect her decision. The only character who has yet to reveal himself is Will. Now that his character is being tested, what is his essential nature, and how does that impact Elizabeth?
Though what's really frustrating is putting the pieces together. The script from DMC seems to lead in this direction, but the rough draft of AWE seems to turn what happens in DMC on its ear. All the spoilers and interviews don't match up with one another.
Gender: Female Location: Giving dirty Mr Sparrow a sponge ba
OMG Liz even did it in the curiosity scene when she was trying to get that kiss out of Jack..its like she was blabbing on and not REALLY being honest about what she was doing which was REALLY trying to get Jack to kiss her.she was going on about honor yet did you see how dissapointed she was when he pulled away?
Jack was yet again pretty silent and honest in that scene so we see his true emotions
Liz was blabbing and hiding why she's really doing it to him...she wants to KIIISSS him..we see her true intentions when ever she does this to him in the movie
I wonder if this will continue into AWE..
they are so alike my god..when they are both trying to hide their true motives they BLAB AND BLAB
but when they are being honest ..they are silent..Liz at the end anyone?
just before this little moment..Jack was using lots and lots of words IMO he was trying to chat her up but still only make it look like flirting because he doesnt want her to see that he's smitten with her..
Last edited by LovelyOne on Oct 7th, 2006 at 04:57 PM
yeh, that whole peas in a pod thing, wasnt that in the deleted scenes of "curse of the black pearl" jack and elizabeth on a boat together andhe tells her that their peas in a pod. right? is it jst me, am i crazy? i dont think i am.... lol
its so true, with Jack needing to step up and be a bit more aggressive about what he wants this time, maybe. I think he's made it clear to Liz he desires her (seeing as how the rest of the characters know too lol) but i think he needs to present that to her--- how he really feels, and what he wants--- in an honest, upfront way, sans witty banter or sexual innuendo.
In that choke scene, Jack says something very interesting. "A GENTLEMAN never tells."
Thats HUGE> You know what that means? Jack has been calling himself a pirate all these years, but deep down, he still sees himself as a GENTLEMAN... and it took Elizabeth to draw that out of him again. Elizabeth doesn't take his crap and is suddenly being all "ladylike" (aka annoying, but coy and moralistic) and he DOES treat her like a lady... because he has been trained how, because at one point he WAS a gentleman, and that is kind of the foundation of who he is. I think this points to LovelyOne's ending theory... because we see Jack come full circle as a gentleman again, possibly. OR perhaps we will see him overthrow this by telling her secret later on, with the excuse that "a gentleman may not tell, but I'm a pirate!" haha.
Yes the peas in a pod was a deleted scene from 1. HOTT STUFF>...
I know, Jack and Liz are SOOOOOOOOOO alike its impossible to describe.
Jack and Liz are both survivors. they are willing to make moral compromises in order to stay alive. Will, on the other hand, won't make those compromises, and that is why he is doomed in the world t and t have created- this world where right and wrong arent black and white areas, ya know? Jack is the hero of this story, which means they have trumped up and ennobled his "survival" game rather than Will's game of honor.
And yes, its interesting how Liz is picking up Jack's habit for distraction with lots of words. You can trust both of them MOST when they are being silent. My favorite "silent Jack" moment is when he has just said "we're not free yet love"... and she is coming towards him, and he's all silent...
i think we have enough theories to support the relationship of jack and liz. now we need more theories on why wills destiny was to become like davy jones. and what kind of immortal will Will be.
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Oct 6th, 2006 07:56 PM
This is not my pic, it belongs to Kalin from KTTC. All hail Kalin and her wonderful picture making ways.
